Mind Without Measure

1st Public Talk
22nd January, 1983
Where There Is a Cause, There Is an End

If one may like to point out, this is not a lecture to instruct on a particular subject or with a view to inform, not to instruct and teach, but we, you and the speaker, are searching out the various issues of our daily lives to see if there are any solutions for them. So it is your responsibility as well as that of the speaker to think together, for each of us to discover, find out for ourselves if we are meeting each other; not merely at the intellectual level or emotional, ideational level, but rather meet in a relationship that is enquiring, questioning. To question, enquire, one must be free of prejudices. Otherwise, enquiry has no value at all. Most of you are already committed to so many ideals, conclusions, opinions, and so we never meet. As the speaker has no beliefs, has no ideals, has no authority whatsoever, he can investigate easily, freely, happily, but if you also were free, you can also enquire, look into the vast conflicts of our society, of our governments, why human beings who have lived on this earth for perhaps forty, fifty thousand years or more have become what they are - dull, violent, superstitious. We are the society, we have created this society in which we live, and to bring about order in that society, our own house must be in order, which it is not. Our house, the house in which we live, is not the physical house, but it is the house of our struggle, conflict, misery, confusion, sorrow. That is our house, and we don't bring about order in that. Mere demand for outward order has little meaning.

What we are concerned with deeply is why human beings are what they are, why they have become like this. The future is what they are now. If they don't change now, the future will be exactly what it is now, perhaps with certain modification, variation. If human beings don't radically, fundamentally, bring about a change in their own attitudes, in their own lives, which is to put order, then attending all these talks has very little meaning. If that is very clear, then we are together meeting at a certain level with the same intensity, at the same time; then communication becomes very simple. Because, obviously the speaker is here to say something, to explore something with you. If you hold on to your commitments, to your beliefs, to your gurus and all that, we can never meet each other. So, please, this is a talk or a conversation between two people, a dialogue of two friends who are concerned not only with their own private life but concerned with the world, concerned with what is happening in the world - the global disorder, the threat of wars, poverty, the violence and the destruction that is going on right through the world. We are responsible for all that.

What is the problem? Why have we, throughout our life, problems - from the beginning, when we see the light, till we die? Why do we have problems - social problems, economic problems, mechanical problems, computer problems and our own problems in our daily life, in our relationship? Is it necessary to have problems? Is it possible to live without a single problem? If you have problems, obviously those problems act as friction and wear out the brain, and one gets old and so on. Human beings throughout the world have many, many problems. They live in problems. Their whole life is a movement of problems. Now we are asking: is it possible not to have problems? We are going to investigate the question, not say, `yes, it is possible to live without problems; that is not the point. The point is why do we have it, what is a problem, why the brain is always trying to solve problems. There are mechanical problems, mathematical problems, problems of design, problems in architecture, physics. In the technological field, there are many, many problems. That is inevitable. But why do we, in our life, in our relationship, in our own way of living, in our family, have problems? We see that in the technological world problems must exist. We live in a mechanical world. We are business people: we are doctors, surgeons, physicists, biologists, trained computer experts. And our brain is trained, educated, conditioned, to solve problems. We extend that same attitude to our daily life. Do you understand what I am saying? Suppose one is a computer expert. He has several problems there, and mechanically he has to solve those problems, which means his brain is trained, conditioned, educated, to solve problems. And we extend that same movement of solution of problems to the psychological field.

The psychological field is the field of our relationship, our fears, anxiety, all the rest of it. We have got the same mentality that these have to be solved: these are problems that have to be solved, which means we look at life, at our daily living, from the point of view of our problems. You are trained or educated to solve problems. We try to solve one problem. In the solution of that one problem we add more problems. So we live with problems. We are saying something totally different, which is, to observe life not with a mind that is trained to solve problems, but to understand why the brain is conditioned, trained, educated, to solve problems, and why with that same movement we meet life.

Now, we are going to look at the various issues of our life not with a brain that is trained to solve problems, but to observe the issues, not demanding an answer, not demanding a solution, because to live a life without a single problem is the most extraordinary life. It has immense capacity. It has tremendous energy. It is always renewing itself, but if you are always caught in the field of problems and the resolution of those problems, then you never move out of those problems. Is this clear? We are going to find out whether it is possible to look at any issue and not call it a problem, to look at any issue of our daily life and not label it as a problem but only to observe it, to be aware of the whole nature of that issue, the content of that issue; but if you approach it as a problem and therefore try to find an answer to it, you will increase the problem. Say, for example, it is important to have an unoccupied mind. It is only a brain that is unoccupied that can perceive something new, that is free, that has tremendous vitality. It is necessary to have a very quiet mind because it is only a quiet mind, unoccupied mind, a brain that can see things clearly, that can actually think totally differently. Now, you hear that it is necessary to have a quiet, still mind, then you ask, `how am I to get it?' Then you make a problem of it - `I need a quiet mind. My mind is occupied, restless, chattering all the time and how am I to stop it?' The desire to stop it brings about problems. How am I to do it is a problem. Have you understood this? But if you approach the question of that unoccupied mind without the how, then you will begin to see for yourself the nature of occupation, why it is occupied, why it is constantly dwelling on a particular thing. When you observe it, when you are aware of it, it is telling you the story. Do you understand this?

First, we must be very clear that you and the speaker are treating life not as a problem but as a tremendous movement. If your brain is trained to solve problems, then you will treat this movement as a problem to be solved. Is it possible to look at life with all its questions, with all its issues, which is tremendously complex, to look at it not as a problem, but to observe it clearly, without bias, without coming to some conclusion which will then dictate your observation? You have to observe this vast movement of life, not only your own particular life, but the life of humanity, the life of the earth, the life of the trees, the life of the whole world - look at it, observe it, move with it, but if you treat it as a problem, then you will create more problems. Is this clear?

What is our first issue in life, what is the first movement in our life, in the life of man? We are not talking about the petty little life which you lead, which we will come to presently, but the life that is around us, the vast, immense, complex movement of existence. What is it that strikes you first? What is it that has meaning, that has depth, that has a sense of vitality behind it? What would be your first observation, your first response, your first immediate enquiry? Perhaps you never ask this question. If you look at this vast extraordinary movement of life of which one is a part, what is the thing that you meet first? Would it be relationship, would it be your own particular concern about yourself, would it be your own fear, your own anxiety, your own particular, narrow, limited enquiry, your own search for god? What would be your first natural contact, natural demand? Don't we look at this vast movement of life from a narrow little window, that window being your own little self - your own worries, your own anxieties, your own sexual demands? Are you looking at this vast movement from no particular point of view, from no window, from no commitment, or are you so caught in a system, in a tradition, in knowing as a professor, as a philosopher, as a writer, as a soldier or as a specialist? Or do you look at it as a human being, the human being with so many questions, sorrows, pains, anxieties? How do you look at all this?

When you put such a question among so many people, naturally each one has a different response. But as we are all human beings, we are the rest of mankind. We may have a certain background, certain tradition, certain long history. But primarily you are a human being, not a Christian, not a doctor, not a Buddhist, not a Hindu; you are primarily a human being related to all other human beings. Therefore, you are the rest of humanity. Your body may be different from another body, the physical organism may be different from other physical organism, but the body never says `I am', the body never says `I am something special; the body never says `my progress, my success, I must seek God', and all that. The body is never conscious that it is separate from somebody else. It is thought that says I am different. It is important to see how thought divides. So, that is the first thing that you notice when you look at this vast movement of life, how man has divided himself from another, separated himself from another, calling himself an American, a Jew, a Russian, an Arab, a Hindu, and all the rest of it. Don't you observe this extraordinary broken up human entity? Are you aware of that? In that, the first thing you see is how the world is divided geographically, nationally, racially, religiously. This division is causing immense conflict, this division is causing wars - the Hindu against the Muslim. the Russian against the Afghan, and so on. Isn't that the first thing you see in this world - how man has created this division? This division must exist because thought has created this division.

Sir, if you are at all alert, aware, one sees what man has done to himself and what he has done to others. That is the first thing one observes - the destruction of this division, the breeding of wars through nationalism. One of the causes of war is nationalism, and one never treats this vast movement of life as one unit. We have lived that way for thousands of years, killing each other in the name of god, in the name of peace, in the name of the country, in the name of a flag, and we are still doing this after thousands of years. So one asks, what is wrong with man? Why is he doing this? He is extraordinarily clever in the technological world; he has invented the most extraordinary delicate instruments. But we are still carrying on most stupidly our own lives. So that is the first thing you notice. And one asks what is the cause of it.

What is the cause of all this - this division, these wars, the structure of hierarchical authority in every country, in the religious world, in the political world, in the scientific world? It is all based on hierarchical principles - the authority of knowledge, authority of experience, and so on. Now, what is the cause of all this? Who is responsible? Please enquire. Because, where there is a cause, there is an end to that cause. If one has pain, the cause being cancer or what you will, then that pain can be ended or you are killed. So, wherever there is a cause, there is an end to that. That is a law, that is a principle. So we are asking: what is the cause of all this - this vast misery, unhappiness, the tremendous uncertainty?

May we go into it together, not that I explain, you accept, but together, slowly, carefully, find out for ourselves what is the root of all this, what is the cause of all this? If we don't find it now, the future will be exactly the same, what you are now - wars, division, sorrow, pain, anxiety, uncertainty. So together let us find out what is the cause of this division. This division breeds wars, quarrels, perpetual conflict - conflict between man and woman, sexually, and so on. What is the root of all this, the cause of all this? If I may ask, how do you approach a question like that? How do you come near to it? Approach means to come near, to come into contact. This is a question put to you and are you looking at it as a problem to be resolved, or do you come even close to it? If you do, you are then open to the question, but if you keep away from the question, you are not open, you are not alive to the question.

So we are together approaching this question with no direction, with no motive, because if there is a motive, then that motive dictates the answer, it distorts the perception. Suppose this is my question; I am putting this question to myself: `What is the root of all this?' I have no answer. I don't know, but I am going to find out. But to find out, I must be free, absolutely free from any kind of direction. Because, if I have a direction, a motive, hoping for some kind of reward, then that motive, that reward, is going to dictate my investigation. So one must be free to observe this question - what is the root of all this? Is it inevitable for every human being living on this beautiful earth that he must live in conflict, that he must live with anxiety, fear? If you accept that as inevitable, then there is no investigation. You have come to a conclusion and you have shut the door. Conclusion means the ending of investigation. The very word `conclusion` is to close, to end. If you come to any conclusion, then you cannot possibly answer. So one must be aware of how you approach this question. We are asking: is it thought? What is thought? Is thought yours. Is thought individual? Is your thinking separate from somebody else's thinking? Every person thinks - the most stupid, ignorant, downtrodden man in a village to the great scientist. So thinking is common to all of us. It is not your thinking separate from my thinking. But thinking is the movement of all mankind; it is not individual thinking. Do we see that? It is rather difficult to accept it or see it because we are so conditioned, we are so educated, so trained to think that my thinking is separate from yours, my opinion is different from yours. But opinion is opinion; it is not your opinion or my opinion.

So, is thinking the root of all this misery, this destruction, this decline, this corruption, this decay? If it is, then can that movement of thought which has created such havoc in the world, end? It is thinking which has created the most extraordinary technological world, great instruments of war, extraordinary submarines, and so on. Also it has created all the religions in the world. It has built extraordinary cathedrals, mosques, temples and all the things that are in the temples, in the mosques, in the churches. Thought has invented all the rituals, invented the saviour in the Christian world, invented liberation or moksha or whatever you like to call it in this country. Also it has invented gods. The more you are uncertain, the more dangerous the world becomes. So thought must find a security, the sense of safety, certainty. And it creates gods - your god and my god, my god is better than your god, my guru is better than yours, and so on. Thought has been responsible for all this, If that is the cause, if thought is the cause of all this - our misery, our superstitions, our immense insecurity, uncertainty, and also thought has created the most extraordinary things - communications, surgery, medicines and so on, is there an end to it? You understand my question? Is there an end to thought? That is, if thought is responsible for all this technological world and the human world of misery, unhappiness, anxiety, if thought is the cause of all this, it must have an end. That is, if one has a certain disease brought about by various incidents, that disease has a cause, and that having been discovered, it can be treated and ended. Similarly, if thought is responsible for all this, for our daily confusion, misery, uncertainty, sorrow, and all these superstitions that thought has created around us, if thought is the cause, it has an end.

If you say, tell me how to end thought, then you make a problem of it because your brain is trained, educated, to solve problems. As an expert in computers is trained to solve problems there, that same movement is extended into the psychological world. If thought is the cause of this, the question is not how to end it, but to understand the whole movement of thought. If you treat it as your thinking, and somebody else treats it as his thinking, then the issues are totally different. That leads to all kinds of illusion. Superstitions have no reality, but thinking is the ground upon which all human beings - the black, the white, the pink, the Muslim, the Hindu, the villager, the uneducated - stand. Then you move away from the idea that it is my thinking; you are then concerned with global thinking, not the Indian way of thinking. You are concerned really with the world, with all humanity, of which you are. You are not an individual. Individual means unique, undivided. You are not unique, you are totally divided, fragmented in yourself, you are the result of all the past generations. Your brain is not yours. It is evolved through thousands and thousands of years. But your religion, your scriptures, your everyday life, says you are separate from everybody else, and you are trained to accept it. You have never gone into it, you have never questioned it, doubted it, but you accept, and in that acceptance lies your problems. But if you look at it all as a vast movement of life of which you are a part, this movement that is limitless, that has no beginning and no end, then you begin to enquire into the nature of thought.

Now, what is the origin of thought? Why is thought divided in its very nature, the very movement of thinking in itself, why is it divisive, fragmentary, limited? Since thought is perhaps the cause, don't ask, `Please tell me how to end the cause; then you are back into your old field of problems. If you try to solve this problem, you have other problems. Thought is creating problems. So you say, tell me how to stop them, how to stop thinking, and there are lots of people who will tell you how to stop thinking. And those people vary from each other - meditate, don't meditate, try this way, you know all that. So we multiply problems after problems. But look at this movement of thought with which man has lived for thousands upon thousands of years, and ask not how to end thought, but what is the nature of it, why has thought become so important. Because, thought implies knowledge. Ask what place has knowledge in life. We must stop now, we will continue tomorrow evening. But please, when you leave here, look at it, find out; that means an active brain, brain that is active, thinking, discussing, not just stuck in a narrow little groove of tradition of some system. One of the calamities in the world is that we are all getting old, not merely old in the body, but old mentally. Decay begins there inside first because we become mechanical. We never have the energy, vitality, passion, to find out. We have all been told what to do, we have all been instructed. This is not a place of instruction nor are you being told what to do. Here we are serious to find out a different way of living, and you can only find that out when you understand the nature of thought and the way of living in which thought is not important at all.

2nd Public Talk
23rd January, 1983
The Good Mind

May we continue with what we were talking about yesterday evening? We said the present condition of racial divisions, linguistic divisions, religious divisions, national divisions as Muslim and the Hindu, the Jew and the Arab, the American and the European, the Russian, the Chinese, and so on has brought about a great many wars. Where there is division there must be conflict, not only division between man and woman in their relationship, but also division as racial, religious and linguistic. Also we went into the question of why does this constant conflict between man and man exist, what is the root of it, what is the cause of all this chaos, anarchy, near anarchy, bad governments, each nation preparing for wars, one guru more important than the other, and so on. We are seeing this division throughout the world, and also historically it has existed for many, many centuries. What is the cause of it? Who is responsible for it? We said thought has divided man against man; thought has also created the most extraordinary architecture, painting, poetry and the whole world of technology, medicine, surgery, communications, computers, robots, and so on. Thought has brought about health, good medicine and various forms of human comfort. But thought also has created this vast division between man and man, and we ask what is the cause of all this. Who is responsible for all this? And we said, where there is a cause, there is an end. When you have a certain disease, the cause can be found of that disease, and the disease can be cured. So wherever there is a cause, there is an end to that cause. That is obviously a fact. If thought has created this confusion, this uncertainty, this perpetual danger, then what will happen if thought is not used?

We are together investigating, asking why man throughout the world lives and perpetuates conflict not only within himself but outwardly - in society, in religion, in the economy, and so on. That thought is responsible for the mess, for the division, for all the misery of human beings, is fairly obvious. If one recognizes that fact, not as a theory or philosophical statement but the actual fact of it, that thought, however clever, however crafty, however erudite, is responsible for this mess, then what is man to do? That is where we left off yesterday. We said also that thought has created marvellous cathedrals, temples and mosques, and all the things that are in the temples, mosques and churches are the invention of thought. Thought has created god because thought seeks to find security. Finding uncertainty, insecurity, conflict, in this world, thought invents an entity, a principle, an ideal which gives it security, comfort; but that comfort, that security, is the invention of thought. It is very obvious, if you observe your own thinking, that thought has created this division and this conflict. Then we can ask a question: why does this conflict exist, why have we lived with conflict from immemorial times - conflict between the good and the bad, between `what is' and `what should be', the actual and the ideal?

Why does man live in conflict? What is conflict? What is the nature of conflict? I do not know if some of you have seen those caves in the south of France where, 25, 30 thousand years ago, there is a picture of man fighting evil in the form of a bull, and so on. For thousands of years we have lived with conflict. To meditate, it becomes a conflict. Does conflict exist where there is comparison? Comparison means measurement. One compares oneself with another. Where there is comparison, there must be fear, there must be conflict. Can one live without comparison at all? We think that by comparing ourselves with somebody we are progressing. You want to be like your guru, you want to achieve enlightenment, position, you want a follower, you want to be respected, and so on. So, where there is a becoming psychologically, there must be conflict. Is it possible to live a life without any comparison and therefore without any conflict? We are questioning the whole process of psychological becoming. A child becomes an adult, then grows into manhood. To learn a language we need time, to acquire any skill we need time. We are asking, is becoming psychologically one of the reasons of conflict - the `what is' to be changed into `what should be' - `I am not good but I will be good, I am greedy, envious, but perhaps one day I will be free of all this.' Desire to become, which is measurement, which is comparison, is that one of the causes of conflict?

There is another reason for conflict - which is, there is duality. We are examining something to understand the nature of conflict and to find out for ourselves if it is possible to be totally, completely, free of conflict. Conflict wears out the brain, makes the mind old. A man who has lived without conflict is an extraordinary human being. It is important to realize the necessity of understanding conflict. We see that measurement, comparison, brings about conflict. Also we have stated that there is duality. Some of your philosophers have stated that, posited that there is duality and that one of the reasons of this conflict is this duality. There is duality - night and morning, light and shade, tall and short, bright and dull morning, sun rising and sun setting. Physically there is duality: you are a woman and another is a man. But we are asking, is there psychological duality at all? Or is there only `what is'? I am violent, that is, there is only violence, not non-violence. The non-violence is just an idea. It is not a fact. Where there is violence and non-violence, there must be conflict. In this country, you are talking endlessly about non-violence, but probably you are also very violent people. The fact is, human beings throughout the world are violent. That is a fact. Violence means not only physical violence but also imitation, conformity, obedience, acceptance.

There are other forms of violence, but there is only `what is'. But if you are conditioned to pursue non-violence while you are violent, that is, to move away from the fact, then you must have conflict. Whereas, if one dealt with `what is', there is only one fact - that is I am violent, and in the understanding of the nature and structure of violence there may be the ending of violence, but the ending of violence is not a problem. Our minds are trained, educated, to solve problems - mathematical problems, economic problems, political problems, and so on. Our brains are conditioned to deal mechanically with problems. And we make of life a series of endless problems psychologically. We went into that yesterday. So there is only fact, not the opposite. Is this very clear - that the ideal, the principle, that which you call the noble, are all illusions? What is fact is, we are violent, ignorant, corrupt, uncertain, and so on. Those are facts and we have to deal with facts. Facts don't create problems if you face them. I discover that I am violent, and I have no opposite to it. I reject totally the opposite, it has no meaning. There is only fact.

Now, how do I deal with fact? How do I approach fact? How do I look at that fact? What is my motive in looking at the fact? What is the direction in which I want the fact to move? I must be aware of the nature and structure of the fact, I must be aware of the fact without choice. How does one deal with fact? That is, how do I observe the fact that I am violent? That violence is shown when I am angry, when I am jealous. If I am trying to compare myself with another, if I am doing all that, then it is impossible to face facts. A good mind faces facts. If you are in business, you face facts and deal with the fact, change the fact; you don't pretend that you will do something else away from the fact. Then you are not a good businessman. But here we are so ineffectual because we don't deal with facts. Psychologically, inwardly, we avoid them. We escape from them, or when we do discover them, we suppress them. So there is no resolution of any of them. From that, we ask something else, which is: What is a good mind? Is a mind good when it is full of knowledge?

What is knowledge? We are all very proud of having knowledge, scholastic knowledge through experience, knowledge through incidents, accidents. Accumulated memory is knowledge. An experience can never be complete. Is a good mind a free, comprehensive, global, mind, or is a good mind parochial, narrow, nationalistic, traditional? A good mind is a free mind. It is not a contemporary mind. A good mind is not of time, a good mind is not concerned with time, with environment. It can deal with environment, it can deal with time, but in itself, it is totally free. Such a mind has no fear. Whereas, our minds have been so educated, so trained, that we are not original. There is no depth; knowledge is always superficial. We are concerned with the understanding of the human being, his mind, his action, his behaviour; his responses are limited because his senses are limited. Is it possible for him to be completely, wholly, free? One must have a good mind, not just accumulation of words, which does not mean a clever mind, crafty mind. We are very cunning, crafty, subtle, but that is not a good mind. So, is it possible for us, living in this modem world with all the activities that happen, the influences and newspapers and constant repetition, with our minds being programmed like a computer, as a Hindu, Sikh, and so on, to be strong, healthy, active, full of alertness? Such a mind is necessary. Only then is it possible to bring about a psychological revolution and so a new society, a new culture.

I hope you are listening. It is important to know the art of listening: it is to listen, to see the truth of it and act. For us, we see something to be true, we understand logically, reasonably, very clearly, but we don't act. There is an interval between perception and action. Between the perception and action all other incidents take place. Therefore you will never act. If you see that violence in you is a fact and not try to become non-violent, which is non-fact, but if you perceive the nature of violence, the complexity of violence and listen to your own violence, it will reveal the nature of itself. Then there is the end of violence, completely.

As we said earlier, a chattering mind is an unhealthy mind. It perpetually talks, not only about business problems, mathematical problems, and so on, but problems of one's relationship with husband, wife, children, with the neighbour. It is perpetually occupied, and such occupation will inevitably wear down, weigh down, the capacity of the brain. It is obvious. Is it possible not to chatter? When we realize this chattering and ask the question is it possible to stop it, then we make a problem of it. Our brains are trained to solve problems. So we solve it by saying I must not chatter, and I must try to control, and then the problem arises: Who is the controller? Is the controller different from the controlled? When a problem arises, you are ready to solve it, and brains like ours are trained to solve problems. In solving one problem, other problems increase. So, see a fact that you are violent and make the story of violence read itself; and it will, if your mind is quiet. But don't make a problem of it - `How is the brain to be quiet?' Is it possible to look, to observe, without any choice, to look at your greed, envy, ambitions, your arrogance? Have you not noticed how many people are arrogant? Not the politician, that is understood; he wants power, position, prestige. Where there is power, there is evil. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Now, are you arrogant? The man who is trying to become something psychologically is arrogant. A person is arrogant when he tries to become something which he is not. The becoming is the movement of arrogance. Sirs, look at it. It denies totally the sense of humility. When you are facing facts, then you have to be totally humble, not cultivate humility. Only the vain cultivate humility. When they are vain, arrogant, they may cultivate humility, but their humility is still arrogance. We are all treading the same path of becoming and therefore being utterly dishonest, pretending to be what we are not. Whereas, a good mind faces the fact, the fact that you are violent; arrogant. Nobody has to tell me that you are arrogant, it is so obvious. The way you talk, the way you behave, if one is at all awake, one sees the nature of arrogance. To see it, to comprehend it and to hold it, not try to escape from it, is to solve it. When there is perception of that which is, that is arrogance, that very perception demands immediate action. That is intelligence. If I see something dangerous - and violence is tremendous danger for a healthy, sane, rational, passionate mind - and if there is the perception of that, that very perception demands immediate action. That is the ending of it. Perception doesn't demand analysis. Perception is something actual, understanding it, looking at it, ending it, and then from there you can reason. That very reasoning will be logical. But if you begin with logic, reason, find out the cause, then you will take time and the cause will multiply.

So, is it possible to live a life without a single problem? We are not talking of mathematical problems and so on, but problems of relationship. To have no problems in relationship - is that possible? You have problems with your wife, with your father, with your mother, with your children. Why? If the daily living is not in order, you can meditate till you are blue in the face, that meditation has no meaning. It is merely an escape; you might just as well take a drug and enjoy yourself. If you don't put your house in order, which is your relationship, if that house is not in order, then your society will not be in order. You must begin near to go very far. The near is your relationship. Why are problems there? Why do you have problems with your wife, with your husband, with your children, with your neighbour, with your government, with your community and all the rest of it, which is, what is relationship? Life is a movement in relationship. There is no escape from that. You may become a hermit, take vows, put on strange garbs and all the rest of it, thinking yourself extraordinary, exceptional, but you are related. To understand relationship is the most important thing in life; not god, not all these scriptures, but to understand the depth, the meaning, the beauty, the quality, of relationship.

Now, are you being drowned by a lot of words or do you catch instantly the depth, the beauty, the quality of relationship without more explanation, more analysis, see the extraordinary importance of relationship? Do you see the beauty of relationship? Where there is no relationship, there is disorder. So let us look at it together in order to arrive at or listen to something serious. You know most of us have homes, have houses, flats, and we own them and possess them. It is our home. We never realize that we are also guests in that house. Do you understand the meaning of that? You can be a guest in a house, in your own house. Do you understand what it means? That means one must be a teacher as well as a disciple. There is no teacher outside of you. You are the teacher and also you are the disciple who is learning from the teacher, not from the teacher as a guru. But you are learning and teaching. You are the owner of your house and also you are the guest of your house. That means you look after the house, you care for the house, you care for whoever is in the house because you are a guest. The speaker has travelled all over the world for the last sixty years, and wherever he is, he is a guest. That means he is always adjusting himself like a river with great volume of water behind it, and every boulder, every rock, it goes round it. The guest is like that. Let us get back.

Relationship is one of the most important things in life. Why have we made it such a confusion and such misery? What is relationship? The word implies being in contact, not only physical contact, not sexual contact - that you all know - but to be in contact mentally, emotionally, inwardly, with another so that there is no division in that contact. That is relationship. But we have not got that contact. You are ambitious and your wife also is ambitious. You want this and she wants something else. She may be right and you may be wrong. She wants to live in a marvellous house and you say `Please, for god's sake; she wants to be popular and you don't care. You are a scholar, a professor in your own little groove, and she has also her own little groove. So you are never in contact with each other except sexually. This is a fact. And you call that relationship. You have an image about her or she has an image about you. Where does love come into all this? Do you understand my question? When one says to one's wife, I love you, what does it mean? I don't know whether you say it at all. I doubt it. But if you do say it, what does it mean to love another? Relationship means to love another. What does that word mean? I love this or I love that, I love god, I love my guru. What does that love mean? Is it based on reward and punishment? Look at it sirs, because we are always caught between the two - reward and punishment. I follow the guru because he is going to promise me heaven, give me comfort. We are caught in this. Is relationship a reward and punishment process? Is love a movement of that? Think it out.

To meet your wife or your husband, your children, your neighbour, at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity, that is love. Do you understand this? To meet somebody, you must meet him at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity. Then that is relationship, but if you are ambitious, you follow the path, becoming noble, ignoble and all the rest of it, and she also follows another path. Naturally you may be married, you may have children and all the rest of it, but you never meet. That breeds a sense of desperate loneliness. Don't you know all this? I have no relationship with anyone - with my wife, with my boss, with my foreman - I have no relationship at all with anybody, because I am self-centred. So that self-centredness and the lack of relationship brings about great loneliness. Discovering that loneliness, we then make out of that loneliness a problem - what am I to do when I am lonely? Your brain is ready to solve the problem. But you never rest with the loneliness, you never enquire the cause of it.

Where there is love, there is no loneliness. Where there is love in your heart, there is no problem. Having stated that, don't make it into a problem. Look at the fact. The fact is that we are not sensitive, that we don't have the depth of beauty. The fact is that we don't love; we don't look at it, try to remain with it, to see `that is so', not try to rationalize it. It is so, that I don't love my wife; you know what it means to say that to yourself. You should cry. I want to cry for you all. Sirs, it is like two parallel lines never meeting and therefore increasing conflict day after day till you die. See the fact that there is no love in your heart, to have the mind in your heart. We think love can be achieved, cultivated. Love is not something to cultivate. Either there is or there is not. If there is not, look at it, hold it, realize what you are without love in your heart; it then becomes a machine - insensitive, vulgar, coarse, only concerned with sex and pleasure. Sirs, please, I am not harassing you, I am not scolding you. I am just pointing out what is happening. Your knowledge, your books, have destroyed you because love is not found in the books. It does not lie with knowledge. Knowledge and love don't go together. Then you say: `I know my wife', but that is your knowledge which is your image about her. That knowledge is put together by thought, and thought is not love. So, having stated all this, do you have love in your heart or is it something romantic, nonsensical, impractical, valueless? It does not give you any money; that is so. Having heard all this, is there a comprehension of the depth of that word so that your mind is in the heart? Then you have right relationship. When you have right relationship, which means love, you can never go wrong.

3rd Public Talk
29th January, 1983
Is There a Psychological Evolution

We must together perceive for ourselves what is truth and what is false; not to be told what is false or what is true, what is ignorance and what is knowledge, but to find for ourselves a quiet corner in ourselves, living in this dreadful city, living in small spaces, working all day long, commuting, going to great distances in crowded trains and buses. We must find for ourselves a quiet corner, not in a house or in a garden or an empty lane but deep within ourselves, and from there act, live, and find out for ourselves what is beauty, what is time, the nature and the movement of fear, the pursuit of pleasure and the ending of sorrow. We must have such a corner, not in the mind but in the heart, because then, where there is affection and love, intellect, understanding, comes clarity, and from that there is action. But most of us live such strenuous, conflicting, lives with much pressure around us. If we don't find for ourselves some inward space, a space not created by thought, a space uncontaminated, clear, in which there is a light which is not lit by another, a light to ourselves so that we are totally free, we are not free human beings. We think we are free. We think we are free because we can choose, because we can do what we want, but freedom is something entirely different from the desire to do what we want. So we must together find for ourselves without guidance, without help, without any outside agency telling us what to do, how to behave, what is right action, and find in ourselves a space that has no ending and no beginning.

First of all, what is beauty? You may ask, what has that to do with our daily life? Our daily life is rather ugly, self-centred; our daily life is a conflict, pain, anxiety, and that sense of desperate loneliness. That is our daily life. To understand that, one must have a great sense of perception, seeing actually what is going on. One of the factors of our life is time. We are going to find out what is time, what part time plays in our life; and whether time which is the process of division, time which is a beginning and an ending, time which is becoming, whether that time - apart from chronological time, apart from the time of sun rising, sun setting, the beauty of the full moon and the slip of new moon - as a path includes or excludes beauty. This is important for us to understand because we have lost all sense of an aesthetic way of living. We have lost the sense of natural beauty, not the beauty of the face only or the good taste in clothes, and so on, but the quality of beauty. Beauty cannot exist without life. Beauty is not of time. Creation is not of time.

So, time is a great factor in our life. There is time by the watch, the chronological time and the time to learn a language, a skill, a time to achieve in this world - become from a clerk to the executive person, and so on. There is time in that direction. Is there time psychologically, that is, inwardly? Is there time which means a progress from here to there, in the sense of becoming more noble, more free of greed, anger, violence? Time is evolution. From the seed to a tree, from a baby to manhood, the growth, the becoming, all that implies time. Time has evolution. Now we are going to question together whether there is psychological evolution at all. This is important because time and thought are the root of fear. Fear cannot end or fade away or dissipate if you don't understand the nature of time and the nature of thought which are the roots of all fear. We are examining together the nature of time. There is physical time, the new moon becoming the full moon, the seed growing into a great gigantic tree. Time is necessary to learn a language, a skill; time is necessary to accumulate knowledge. You may learn a language within a week or six months. To go from here to your house takes time; from one point to another. All physical movement, physical activity, learning, requires time. The psyche, that is, the bundle of all your thinking, of all your feelings, of all your conclusions, beliefs, gods, hope, fear, all that is a bundle, that is your consciousness, that is what you are. That is what your consciousness is. Your consciousness is made of all these things - your gods, your knowledge, your faith, your hope, your fears, your pleasures, your conclusions, your loneliness and the great fear of sorrow, pain. We are asking whether that consciousness has evolution at all.

Evolution means becoming, that is, I am greedy, envious, violent. Can greed evolve into non-greed? Or anger, loneliness, become gradually something else? All our tradition, all our religious training, our belief, our faith, and all the so-called sacred literature tell you that you will become something. If you make an effort, if you strive after, if you meditate, you will move from this to that, from `what you are' to `what you should be'. That is evolution. Now the speaker is denying all that. The speaker is saying greed can never become better greed. There is only the ending of something, not becoming something. Most of you probably believe in reincarnation. Why do you believe in it? That is, from this life to next life, where you have better opportunities, where you will be a little bit nobler, where you have a little more comfort, more enlightenment; that is, from `what you are' to become `what you should be'. That is called evolution. The speaker is questioning that. He says there is no such thing as psychological evolution. You have to understand the nature of that statement, what is implied - that there is no movement as the evolution of the psyche which means there is no becoming. I don't become noble, I don`t achieve enlightenment if I practise, if I strive, if I deny this or control, and so on, which is gradation in achievement. So one has to understand the nature of time; time, as we said, essentially means to divide, break; time implies a beginning and an ending.

So we are going to talk over together the nature of fear; whether fear can end now or it must end gradually. We are used to the idea that gradually we will be rid of fear, which is, `I am afraid, but give me time, I will get over it.' Can fear disappear through time or is the very time itself the root of fear? What is the root of fear? What is fear? You all know what fear is - fear of not becoming, not achieving, fear of the dark, fear of authority, fear of your wife or husband; fear has many many aspects. We are not concerned with the many facets of fear or with the wiping away of one or two fears. It is like cutting the branches of a tree, but if you want to destroy the tree, you must uproot the tree, go to the very root of it. So look at that fear. What is fear - fear of an accident, fear of disease, and ultimate fear which is of death or the fear of living? Fear is much too deep to surrender it or to dispel it or to control it or to suppress it. One must enquire into the root of it. What is the root of fear? Is it not time, is it not remembrance, is it not an experience which you have had which was painful and the fear of it recurring again, fear of disease - are not all these the symptoms? We are not dealing with symptoms. We are concerned whether it is possible to uproot totally all fear. If that is clear, then we are concerned not with a particular fear, not your own special neurotic fear but with the nature, the structure, the cause of fear, because where there is a cause, there is an end. So we are together going to find out the cause. One of the causes of fear is time. That is, the future, fear of what might happen, fear of the past which is time, which is a remembrance, which is thought. We are asking: are time and thought the root of fear are they the cause of fear? I am afraid of what might happen, that is, the future. Or I am afraid of something that has happened in the past that might happen again, that is, the past invading the present, modifying itself and going on. So time is one of the factors of fear. Now, I am asking whether thought is also a factor of fear, and if there is a difference between time and thought. Time is division as yesterday, today and tomorrow, the remembrance of the past projecting into the future, and we are afraid of that which might happen. Now, is thought one of the causes or the cause of fear? So what is thought? What is thinking? The most ignorant who does not know how to read or write, who lives in a small village, poverty-ridden, unhappy, he thinks too as you think, as the scientist thinks. Thinking is shared by all. It is not your thinking, it is not individual thinking. We are asking: is thought one of the factors of fear? We are investigating what is thinking. Thinking is shared by all humanity, whether the most educated, sophisticated, rich, powerful, and all the rest of it, or by the most simple, ignorant, half-starving person. It is common to all. Therefore it is not your thinking. You may express your thinking differently and I may express it in different words, but the fact is that we both think, and thinking is not yours or mine. It is thinking.

So what is thinking? Why has it become so extraordinarily important in your life? Please understand this. Give your mind to this. Because love and thinking cannot go together. Compassion is not the product of thought. Love cannot exist in the shadow of thought. Love is not remembrance. Please give your heart and mind to the understanding of this - that thinking is common to all of us. It is not individual thinking. You may express it and another may express it differently, most scholastically, and another may not, but thinking is shared by all. So what is thinking? When that question is put to you, you begin to think, don't you? Or do you listen to the question? If you listen to the question, which is, your mind is not interfering with your conclusions, with your ideas, and so on, if you are listening with all your attention, which means with all your senses totally awakened, then you will see for yourself what is the origin of thinking. The origin of thinking is experience. Experience gives knowledge, whether it is scientific knowledge or the knowledge about wife or husband. Experience, knowledge, stored in the brain as memory and response of memory, is thinking. This is very simple. It is a fact. You cannot think if there is no memory, if there is no knowledge, if there is no experience. So thinking is a process of time, because knowledge is a process of time and knowledge can never be complete. Therefore thought can never be complete; you must always be fragmented. So fear is the child of thought. So thought and time are the factors of fear.

Now, is thought different from time, or is thought time? Thought is a movement, is it not? It is a material process. Whatever thought has done is material. Your gods are created by thought, your rituals are created by thought. All the things that go on in the name of religion are created by thought. The gods, the gurus, everything is created by thought. Thought is limited, fragmented, because knowledge is limited, and all action then becomes limited. Where there is limitation, there must be fear. So we are asking, do thought and time work together or are they different? Or is there only thought which is divided as time, as progress, as evolution, as becoming? Sirs, please explore all this. Search out. Don't let your brains become dull by knowledge. Life is both intellect, emotion, senses. But if you let thought dominate them all, as you do, then our life becomes fragmented, shallow, empty.

We ought to talk over together what is love. Would you say that you love somebody, love without attachment, love without jealousy? If there is attachment, there is no love. If there is any kind of antagonism, hate, love cannot exist. Where there is fear, love cannot exist. Where there is ambition, love cannot exist; where there is power of any kind, the other cannot be. If you have power over your wife or if you possess your husband or if you are ambitious, then love is not. We are asking, do you love, because without love, suffering will go on. We have to search out, seek out whether there is a possibility of ending sorrow, because all these are linked together. Sorrow is not different from fear. Sorrow is not different from thought. Sorrow is not different from hate, the wounds, the psychological wounds that we receive. They are all related to each other. It is one issue, not separate issues. It is something that you have to approach wholly, not partially. But if you approach it intellectually, ideally or idealistically, romantically, then you don't see the wholeness of life. So we are searching out if there is a possibility of ending sorrow. Fear, pleasure and sorrow have existed from time beyond thought.

Man has always had these three factors in life - fear, the pursuit of pleasure and sorrow, and apparently he has not gone beyond that. He has tried every method, every system that you can think of, tried to suppress it, tried to escape from it, tried to invent the gods and surrender all this to that invention, but that has not worked either. So we must find out whether sorrow can end, whether we can understand the nature of sorrow, the causes of sorrow. Is the cause different from fear, is the cause different from pleasure, pleasure of achievement, pleasure of talent, pleasure of wealth? Let us find out whether sorrow and fear can ever end. The pursuit of pleasure is infinite, is endless, the pleasure of achievement, the pleasure of being attached to somebody, whether that attachment is to a person, to an idea or to a conclusion. While you are pursuing that pleasure, there is always the shadow of fear with it. Where there is fear, there is sorrow. But they are all together. They are all interrelated, and one must deal with them all wholly, not separately. Be clear that we are not dealing with sorrow separately as though it was something different from fear. We are looking, searching out the nature of sorrow and the ending of sorrow, because where there is sorrow, there is no love.

Sorrow expresses itself in so many ways - the sorrow of loneliness, the sorrow of seeing this vast country where there is poverty, corruption, utter disregard for another human being, carelessness. When you watch all this day after day, that is also sorrow, the utter neglect by all the politicians all over the world. They only want power, position, and where there is power, there is evil. And sorrow is the loss of someone you love. Sorrow of losing, sorrow of ending something you have cherished, something that you have held on to, the sorrow of doubt, the sorrow of seeing one's own life such an empty shell, meaningless existence. You may have money, sex, children, be very fashionable, rich, but it is an empty life. There is no depth in it. Seeing that, perceiving the nature of it, is also sorrow. So can sorrow end? It is not your sorrow. It is also mine and another's. Don't deal with sorrow as your particular precious stuff. It is shared by all humanity. Deal with it not as your particular sorrow, your private quiet sorrow, but as the sorrow of all human beings, whether you are a man or a woman, rich or poor, sophisticated or at the height of your excellence. Please don't deal with all these factors like fear, pleasure, sorrow, love, and so on as something separate from each other. You must approach this whole thing wholly, not fragmentarily. If you approach it fragmentarily, you will never solve it. So, look at greed, pain, sorrow, as a whole movement of life, not something different from life. This is our daily life. To find whether there is an end to all this - to misery, to conflict, pain, sorrow and fear - one must be able to perceive them, one must be able to be aware of them.

We must understand what is perception, how to look. Is the observer who looks at all this - the poverty, the loneliness, the anxiety, the uncertainty, the suffering - different from all that or is the observer all that? I will explain this. We have separated the `me', who is the observer, from that which he is observing. I say I am suffering and I say to myself that suffering must end, and to end it, I must suppress it, I must escape from it, I must follow a certain system. So, I am different from fear, from pleasure, from pain, sorrow. Are you different from all that? Or you may think that there is something in you which is totally different from all that. If you think that, it is part of your thought, and therefore there is nothing sacred there. So, is the observer different from the observed? When you are angry, envious, brutal, violent, are you not all that? The meditator is the meditation. Please sir, think about it. The observer is the observed. See the importance of this. Before, we have divided the observer from the observed. That means there is a division between that and the other. So, there was conflict. You could then control it, suppress it, fight it, but if you are that, if you are sorrow, if you are fear, if you are pleasure, you are the conglomeration of all this. To realize that fact is a tremendous reality; therefore, there is no division, and therefore there is no conflict; the observer is the observed.

Then a totally different action takes place, a totally different chemical action takes place. It is not an intellectual achievement, not the intellectual concept of the truth but to see the fact, the truth of it, that you are not different from your qualities, you are not different from your anger, jealousy, hatred, but you are all that, You know what happens when you realize that, not verbally but inwardly? Find out. Are you waiting for me to tell you? I won't. You see how your mind works. You are waiting for me to tell you; you don't want to find out. If I tell you, then you will say yes, right or wrong, but you will go on, but find out for yourself the actual truth of it, that the observer is the observed, the watcher is the watched, that you are the whole bundle of your consciousness, the content of your consciousness is what you are and the content of that consciousness is put together by thought. Now, to find out, not the ending of thought, but to find out how to observe the content, when you observe without the division, then a totally different action takes place. Where there is love, there is no observer. There is no you and the one that you love. There is only that quality of love.

4th Public Talk
30th January, 1983
What Is a Religious Mind?

We ought to talk over together the significance of death, about what is religion and meditation. Before going into all that, I wonder if one is aware of what is happening to our minds, to our brain; if one is aware of the extraordinary things that the brain, which is the seat of thought, has brought about. Technologically we have progressed, advanced so rapidly, and psychologically our behaviour, our attitudes, our actions, are more or less un-evolved. We are still aggressive, brutal, cruel, thoughtless, for thousands and thousands of years. Apparently man is still behaving more or less as he behaved 40,000 years ago. If we had that same energy, that same intensity, as one used in the technological world, if we could go very, very deeply into ourselves and go beyond ourselves, the brain has infinite capacity there too. But very few have taken that journey, very few have gone into this question whether the mind, the brain, can ever be totally free, and therefore enquire very deeply, search out what lies beyond, if there is anything beyond thought.

Some of you perhaps have heard of genetic engineering. The genetic experts say that they assume a factor, a creative element, handed out from the father to the offspring, certain tendencies, qualities. `They are saying, since man has not changed for thousands of years, they assume that he can be changed through genetic interference. It is a very complex question which we are not going to discuss. But we must understand what is going on, that as human beings have not deeply changed their characteristics, their way of life, their violence, they are hoping through certain chemical process and so on to change the genes, the factors that transmit certain characteristics from the father to the son. Also we should consider what is happening in the computer world. We cannot neglect all this: the genetic engineering and what is happening in the computer world. They are trying to create a mechanical intelligence, ultimate intelligence through the computer which will then think much more rapidly, more accurately, and inform the robots what they should do. This is happening already and they are trying to bring about a machine, a computer, which has ultimate intelligence. So, there is on one side genetic engineering, on the other the computer acting as human beings, inventing generation after generation of computer, improving, and so on. I won't go into all that. So what is going to happen to the human mind? What is going to happen to us when the computer can do almost everything that we do? It can meditate, it can invent gods, much better gods than yours, it can inform, educate your children far better than the present teacher, and it will create a great deal of leisure for man. Are you understanding the nature of all this, the significance of all this? That is, what is going to happen to our minds? When the computer and genetic engineering are rapidly advancing, what is going to happen to us? We would have more leisure, the computer plus the robot will do a great many things that we are doing now in our factories, in our offices, and so on. Then man will have more leisure. How will he use that leisure? Please go into this with me for a while. If the computer can out-think you, remember far more than you do, calculate with such astonishing speed and give you leisure, either you pursue the path of pleasure which is entertainment - cinemas, religious entertainments, you know all the industry of entertainment, including the gurus - or psychological search, seeking out inwardly and finding out for oneself a tremendous area that is beyond all thought. These are the only two possibilities left for us - entertainment or delving into the whole structure of the psyche and acting. Now we are asking what is our human mind, our brain. We are going to find out for ourselves.

We first begin by asking what is the significance of death. It is the question of all humanity whether we are very young or very old. What is the meaning, the significance, of the extraordinary thing called death? Yesterday evening, we talked about several things including what is love, compassion; what is the relationship of life which is not only the whole human existence, what is its relationship to love, to death and to the whole search of man for thousands of years to find something that is beyond all thought. We have to understand the meaning of death because we are all going to die. That is absolute certainty. We are so afraid of it or we rationalize it. You say `yes', I accept it, I accept death as I accept pain, as I accept sorrow, as I accept loneliness; I also accept death, which is to submit, to suffer death, to allow the whole of existence of a human being to come to an end, either through disease, through old age or through some incident. We never find out while we are living what it means to die, to understand the depth of it. You are looking at it as an incident of life, as a fact of life, as violence is a fact of life, as hatred is a fact of life. If we are at all reasonable, sane, we must look at this question of death in similar manner, not accept it, not just say it is inevitable or try to find out what lies beyond death, but to observe the nature of dying.

What does death mean to most of us? Surely it means the ending, both organically and biologically, of all the things that we have held here, of all the wounds, pains, sacrifice, resistance, loneliness, despair - all that coming to an end, which means, either there is a continuity of the self, the `me', or the ending of the `me'. We said death is an ending. You can believe in reincarnation, as most of you perhaps do. If you do, you have to ask the question, what is it that continues? Is there a continuity or is there constant change - breaking, ending, beginning? If you believe - as most people perhaps in India believe - that you are going to be reborn, then what is it that is going to be reborn? Surely not the physical body, but if you believe in that, it is a continuity of what you are now, continuity of your beliefs, your activities, your greed, and so on, that is the bundle which is the consciousness, which is the self. That self, which is essentially consciousness, is put together by thought, your greed, your envy; your religious beliefs, superstitions, your anger, and so on; all those are the activities of thought. You are the result of a continuous movement of thought. If you believe in reincarnation and all that, you must find out if it is an illusion or a reality. If you are your name, your form, your ideas, your conclusions, your experiences, are they the factors of continuity as the `me' in the next life? What is that `me'?

Each one of us, we think, is a separate entity; we think we are so-called individuals. What is that individuality - the name, the form, what you remember, your attitudes, your loneliness, your pain, your anxiety, your chaos, your sorrow and uncertainty? You may live in a nice house or in a small room or a nice flat but you are all that. You are the bank account. When you are attached to a bank account, you are the bank account; when you are attached to a house, you are the house; when you are attached to your body, you are that. You may have lovely furniture, and it may be marvellous furniture, and if you are attached to that, you are that furniture. So you are all that. When you are attached to a chair, to a person, to an idea, to an ideal, to a personal experience, what are the implications of that attachment? Why are you attached, because death says you cannot be attached, that is the end of it. You may believe in the future, but death says you have ended, your attachment is over, your bank account is over, your guru and all your following is over. So what is it that continues, that is reborn - memories, ideas? Which is what? - something dead, or is there no continuity at all? Think, search out, please. Continuity means that which is going on modifying itself. You are becoming something, and achieving it and wanting more. Continuity implies security, certainty. Are you certain about anything? Is there security in your ideas? We want continuity. We hope to have continuity because, in continuity we thing there is security. One has been married for ten years, fifteen years or fifty years, there is certain continuity, but in that continuity there is conflict, misery, unhappiness, all the rest of that. So there is no continuity at all. There is constant change if you are aware of it. Either that can be superficial or a total mutation, change. That which has existed completely undergoes a change. One must find out for oneself what is the truth of this matter. One cannot be convinced by argument, by so-called evidence, and so on. One cannot be convinced of anything. One has to search out, seek and find what is true and what is illusion. We have lived with this illusion that we are separate entities, whereas if you examine very closely, your consciousness, which is you is shared by all humanity. They suffer as you suffer, they are as uncertain as you are; they are lonely, miserable, confused, anxious, as you are. So your consciousness is not yours. It is the consciousness of all humanity. You are the entire humanity. It is not mere logical conclusion or observation. That is a fact. We have been trained, educated, both religiously and educationally, that we are separate individuals. We are frightened that individuality should come to an end. With such a thought, such concept as an individual, when one approached the question of death, there is immense fear of ending. But if one sees the reality, the truth that you are the rest of mankind, then what is death?

Have you ever enquired what is the nature of ending, not ending to begin something, but ending? That is, you are attached, that is a common fact; attached to your children, attached to your husband, wife, attached to something or other. Death comes along and wipes away that attachment. You cannot carry your money to heaven. You may like to have it till the last moment, but you cannot take it with you, and death says no. So can we, while living understand the nature of attachment with all its fear, jealousy, anxiety, possessive feeling; while living, be free of attachment? While you are alive, to end something voluntarily, easily without any pressure, without any reward or punishment, to end, in that there is great beauty. Then one understands the nature of freedom. In the ending, there is a beginning, something new. There is an ending, and when there is an ending, there is that feeling of total freedom from all the burden that humanity has carried for centuries. You listen to all this, smile, nod your head and agree, but you will go on being attached. That is the easiest way, the most comforting and the most painful, but you will go on. And you call that practical. Whereas, if you understand the nature of ending, you end your ambition in a very, very competitive world, understand the ending of your arrogance, your pride, your status. When this so-called organism ends, the content of consciousness of humanity goes on unless you bring about a radical change in that consciousness, a mutation, so that you are no longer in that stream of selfishness; you are no longer caught, engaged, put in the prison of attachment, uncertainty, and so on. There is a totally different way of living.

Also we should talk about religion. It is a very complex question. Together we are going to find out a mind that is religious, not the mind that does puja, all the ceremonies, beliefs, and all that. That is not religion. Those are all the inventions of thought. God is your invention because you find life so dull, boring. It is such a pain. So you invent god who is all-perfect, all-loving; you worship that, and you worship that which you have put together by thought. So thought is deceiving you. But you will go on because you love to live in illusion. We must find out what is a religious mind, because a religious mind brings about a new world, a new civilization, a new culture, a new outburst of energy. One must find out for oneself what is a religious mind, not be told, not be directed, not be explained to. So what is a religious mind? You can only find out if you deny totally all the present religious structure, religious beliefs and ideas, because it is only a free mind that can find out what is the quality of the religious mind.

First of all, one can see very clearly that freedom is essential, not freedom from something. A prisoner wants freedom, which means first he is caught in a prison, then he wants freedom to leave that prison. That is only a reaction. That reaction is not freedom. Freedom implies the total ending of all illusions, of all beliefs, of all your accumulated wants, desires. A religious mind is a sane, healthy, factual mind; it faces facts, not ideas. The speaker can go on explaining what is a religious mind. Perhaps you will accept the definitions or deny the definitions; and merely arguing, analysing, questioning, may help, but it may not necessarily bring about a religious mind. So one has to have a great humility, a sense of not knowing. Also a religious mind acts, because it is compassionate. That action is born of intelligence. Intelligence, love, compassion, all go together. That is meditation. Don't suddenly sit up properly. That has no meaning. You may sit cross-legged, breathe properly, practise various systems; that is not meditation.

We are going to enquire, search out for ourselves, what is meditation. The word `meditation means, according to a good dictionary, to ponder over, to think over, to look closely, to come in touch with, not something sublime invented by thought, but come close and touch your daily life. That is the ordinary dictionary meaning of that word meditation. Also meditation implies measurement. That is the meaning of that word. So we begin by asking, why do we measure? What do we mean by measurement? Why is there in our mind and heart this constant measurement? Measurement means comparison. I compare myself with you, wanting to be like you, wanting to be like your guru, like your highest example, whatever it is. Why do we compare at all in life? We say we compare in order to make progress. We are always comparing. You are beautiful, I am not. I want to be as beautiful, as powerful as you are. We want to be as enlightened as you are. There is always this competition of comparison between us. We are never free of that movement, but if we are free, then what are we? Do you understand my question? Is it possible to be free of comparison, is it possible to end comparison? If you don`t compare, then you throw away a great burden that has no reality. Because, then you are what you are. From there you can begin, but if you are always comparing, becoming somebody else, then you are fundamentally unhappy anxious, frightened, and all the rest of it. So please ask the question of yourself, whether you can live without comparison, without any form of measurement which is quite difficult, because we are trained, educated, convinced, that we are this but we will become that. The becoming is a form of measurement. To live without a single movement of measurement is part of meditation.

Most people who meditate follow various systems. Each one has his own guru and he has laid down certain systems of meditation, and you practise, repeat certain words over and over again and you call that meditation. When you repeat over and over again, what is happening to your brain? You become more and more dull. You become a machine and you think that is meditation. You will go on doing it in spite of what the speaker is saying. In enquiring what is meditation, there can be no system, no effort. Effort means conflict. Can you be free of systems, practice, realizing the fact that your brain, your senses, become dull? Can you be free of systems? Can the mind, the brain, realize what it means to follow somebody, to obey what somebody else tells you to do because he calls himself a guru? All those things have destroyed the beauty of a religious mind. Meditation is none of these things, yoga included. Then what is meditation? You want experience. You are craving for some strange experience, so-called spiritual experience. You have enough of experiences in this world, of pain, anxiety, sorrow, and you say we want something more, greater experience. Experience has nothing whatsoever to do with meditation. To experience, there must be an experiencer, and if there is an experiencer, that experiencer is the continuity of past memories which is the self. Meditation is the understanding of the whole structure of the `me', the self, the ego, and whether it is possible to be totally free of the self, not seek some super-self. The super-self is still the self. So meditation is something which is not a cultivated, determined, activity. There must be freedom, and where there is freedom, there is space. Have we space apart from the physical world? Have we, living in Bombay, space? Hardly. We live in a little flat or a little room, and our minds gradually accept that little space. We are talking of space which has no walls. You know, when you look at the sea, when the smog has gone and you see the far horizon, the vast disc, and when you look up at the stars and see their extraordinary brightness and the vast space and the space that you have in your mind, how small it is, how narrow it is; that space in your heart and mind is so controlled, shaped, put together. There is hardly any space in you. To understand that which is sacred, there must be vast space in you, not out there in the sea. Space is not separation. Space is not division. When you divide, there is space between you and your wife, between you as India and another country, but that is not space. The space inwardly can only exist when there is no conflict whatsoever. Then when there is that vast limitless space of the mind, then only in that space there is energy, not the energy and friction of thought, because that energy is born out of freedom. When there is that space and silence and that immeasurable energy, then there is that which is utterly nameless, measureless, timeless; then there is that which is sacred. But to find that, one must have great love, great compassion, which must begin at home. You must love your wife, your children, your husband. Love cannot exist with attachment. If it is attachment, then you have all the problems of life. So, sirs and ladies, it is your life. Either you bring about a great radical, psychological revolution in yourself or the experts of the genetic world are going to make you do something. Then you will become merely machines. Then life will have very little meaning. But there is great significance, great meaning, if you are aware what love is, compassion and intelligence. Then out of that comes great silence and vast space. All that cannot exist if there is any shadow of selfishness. And this is meditation, and not the repetition of words, not the discipline of will, but the discipline of order which comes when there is no conflict.