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Contact UsComplete Works of Swami Vivekananda - Vol-5
II
(At the Twentieth Century Club of Boston, U. S. A.)
Q. -Did Vedanta exert any influence over Mohammedanism?
A. -This Vedantic spirit of religious liberality has very much
affected Mohammedanism. Mohammedanism in India is quite a
different thing from that in any other country. It is only when
Mohammedans come from other countries and preach to their
co-religionists in India about living with men who are not of
their faith that a Mohammedan mob is aroused and fights.
Q. -Does Vedanta recognise caste?
A. -The caste system is opposed to the religion of the Vedanta.
Caste is a social custom, and all our great preachers have tried
to break it down. From Buddhism downwards, every sect has
preached against caste, and every time it has only riveted the
chains. Caste is simply the outgrowth of the political
institutions of India; it is a hereditary trade guild. Trade
competition with Europe has broken caste more than any teaching.
Q. -What is the peculiarity of the Vedas?
A. -One peculiarity of the Vedas is that they are the only
scriptures that again and again declare that you must go beyond
them. The Vedas say that they were written just for the child
mind; and when you have grown, you must go beyond them.
Q. -Do you hold the individual soul to be eternally real?
A. -The individual soul consists of a man's thoughts, and they
are changing every moment. Therefore, it cannot be eternally
real. It is real only in the phenomenal. The individual consists
of memory and thought, how can that be real?
Q. -Why did Buddhism as a religion decline in India?
A. -Buddhism did not really decline in India; it was only a
gigantic social movement. Before Buddha great numbers of animals
were killed for sacrifice and other reasons, and people drank
wine and ate meat in large quantities. Since Buddha's teaching
drunkenness has almost disappeared, and the killing of animals
has almost gone.
III
(At the Brooklyn Ethical Society, Brooklyn, U. S. A.)
Q. -How can you reconcile your optimistic views with the
existence of evil, with the universal prevalence of sorrow and
pain?
A. -I can only answer the question if the existence of
evil be first proved; but this the Vedantic religion does not
admit. Eternal pain unmixed with pleasure would be a positive
evil; but temporal pain and sorrow, if they have contributed an
element of tenderness and nobility tending towards eternal
bliss, are not evils: on the contrary, they may be supreme good.
We cannot assert that anything is evil until we have traced its
sequence into the realm of eternity.
Devil worship is not a part of the Hindu religion. The human
race is in process of development; all have not reached the same
altitude. Therefore some are nobler and purer in their earthly
lives than others. Everyone has an opportunity within the limits
of the sphere of his present development of making himself
better. We cannot unmake ourselves; we cannot destroy or impair
the vital force within us, but we have the freedom to give it
different directions.
Q. -Is not the reality of cosmic matter simply the imagining of
our own minds?
A. -In my opinion the external world is certainly an entity and
has an existence outside of our mental conceptions. All creation
is moving onwards and upwards, obedient to the great law of
spirit evolution, which is different from the evolution of
matter. The latter is symbolical of, but does not explain, the
process of the former. We are not individuals now, in our
present earthly environment. We shall not have reached
individuality until we shall have ascended to the higher state,
when the divine spirit within us will have a perfect medium for
the expression of its attributes.
Q. -What is your explanation of the problem presented to Christ,
as to whether it was the infant itself or its parents that had
sinned, that it was born blind?
A. -While the question of sin does not enter into the problem, I
am convinced that the blindness was due to some act on the part
of the spirit of the child in a previous incarnation. In my
opinion such problems are only explicable on the hypothesis of a
prior earthly existence.
Q. -Do our spirits pass at death into a state of happiness?
A. -Death is only a change of condition: time and space are in
you, you are not in time and space. It is enough to know that as
we make our lives purer and nobler, either in the seen or the
unseen world, the nearer we approach God, who is the centre of
all spiritual beauty and eternal joy.
Q. -What is the Hindu theory of the transmigration of souls?
A. -It is on the same basis as the theory of conservation is to
the scientist. This theory was first produced by a philosopher
of my country. The ancient sages did not believe in a creation.
A creation implies producing something out of nothing. That is
impossible. There was no beginning of creation as there was no
beginning of time. God and creation are as two lines without
end, without beginning, and parallel. Our theory of creation is
"It is, it was, and is to be". All punishment is but reaction.
People of the West should learn one thing from India and that is
toleration. All the religions are good, since the essentials are
the same.
Q. -Why are the women of India not much elevated?
A. -It is in a great degree owing to the barbarous invaders
through different ages; it is partly due to the people of India
themselves.
When it was pointed out to Swamiji in America that Hinduism is
not a proselytising religion, he replied:
"I have a message to the West as Buddha had a message to the
East."
Q. -Do you intend to introduce the practices and rituals of the
Hindu religion into this country (America)?
A. -I am preaching simply philosophy.
Q. -Do you not think if the fear of future hell-fire were taken
from man there would be no controlling him?
A. -No! On the contrary, I think he is made far better through
love and hope than through fear.
IV
(Selections from the Math Diary)
(Translated from Bengali)
Q. -Whom can we call a Guru?
A. -He who can tell your past and future is your Guru.
Q. -How can one have Bhakti?
A. -There is Bhakti within you, only a veil of lust-and-wealth
covers it, and as soon as that is removed Bhakti will manifest
by itself.
Q. -What is the true meaning of the assertion that we should
depend on ourselves?
A. -Here self means the eternal Self. But even dependence on the
non-eternal self may lead gradually to the right goal, as the
individual self is really the eternal Self under delusion.
Q. -If unity is the only reality, how could duality which is
perceived by all every moment have arisen?
A. -Perception is never dual; it is only the representation of
perception that involves duality. If perception were dual, the
known could have existed independently of the knower, and vice
versa.
Q. -How is harmonious development of character to be best
effected?
A. -By association with persons whose character has been so
developed.
Q. -What should be our attitude to the Vedas?
A. -The Vedas, i.e. only those portions of them which agree with
reason, are to be accepted as authority. Other Shâstras, such as
the Purânas etc., are only to be accepted so far as they do not
go against the Vedas. All the religious thoughts that have come
subsequent to the Vedas, in the world, in whatever part of it
have been derived from the Vedas.
Q. -Is the division of time into four Yugas astronomical or
arbitrary calculation?
A. -There is no mention of such divisions in the Vedas. They are
arbitrary assumptions of Paurânika times.
Q. -Is the relation between concepts and words necessary and
immutable, or accidental and conventional?
A. -The point is exceedingly debatable. It seems that there is a
necessary relation, but not absolutely so, as appears from the
diversity of language. There may be some subtle relation which
we are not yet able to detect.
Q. -What should be the principle to be followed in working
within India?
A.-First of all, men should be taught to be practical and
physically strong. A dozen of such lions will conquer the world,
and not millions of sheep can do so. Secondly, men should not be
taught to imitate a personal ideal, however great.
Then Swamiji went on to speak of the corruptions of some of the
Hindu symbols. He distinguished between the path of knowledge
and the path of devotion. The former belonged properly to the
Aryas, and therefore was so strict in the selection of Adhikâris
(qualified aspirants), and the latter coming from the South, or
non-Aryan sources, made no such distinction.
Q. -What part will the Ramakrishna Mission take in the
regenerating work of India?
A. -From this Math will go out men of character who will deluge
the world with spirituality. This will be followed by revivals
in other lines. Thus Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas will be
produced. The Shudra caste will exist no longer -their work
being done by machinery. The present want of India is the
Kshatriya force.
Q. -Is retrograde reincarnation from the human stage possible?
A. -Yes. Reincarnation depends on Karma. If a man accumulates
Karma akin to the beastly nature, he will be drawn thereto.
In one of the question-classes (1898) Swamiji traced
image-worship to Buddhistic sources. First, there was the
Chaitya; second, the Stupa ; and then came the temple of Buddha.
Along with it arose the temples of the Hindu deities.
Q. -Does the Kundalini really exist in the physical body?
A. -Shri Ramakrishna used to say that the so-called lotuses of
the Yogi do not really exist in the human body, but that they
are created within oneself by Yoga powers.
Q. -Can a man attain Mukti by image-worship?
A. -Image-worship cannot directly give Mukti; it may be an
indirect cause, a help on the way. Image-worship should not be
condemned, for, with many, it prepares the mind for the
realisation of the Advaita which alone makes man perfect.
Q. -What should be our highest ideal of character?
A. -Renunciation.
Q. -How did Buddhism leave the legacy of corruption in India?
A. -The Bauddhas tried to make everyone in India a monk or a
nun. We cannot expect that from every one. This led to gradual
relaxation among monks and nuns. It was also caused by their
imitating Tibetan and other barbarous customs in the name of
religion. They went, to preach in those places and assimilated
their corruptions, and then introduced them into India.
Q. -Is Mâyâ without beginning and end?
A. -Maya is eternal both ways, taken universally, as genus; but
it is non-eternal individually.
Q. -Brahman and Maya cannot be cognised simultaneously. How
could the absolute reality of either be proved as arising out of
the one or the other?
A. -It could be proved only by realisation. When one realises
Brahman, for him Maya exists no longer, just as once the
identity of the rope is found out, the illusion of the serpent
comes no more.
Q. -What is Maya?
A. -There is only one thing, call it by any name -matter, or
spirit. It is difficult or rather impossible to think the one
independent of the other. This is Maya, or ignorance.
Q. -What is Mukti (liberation)?
A. -Mukti means entire freedom -freedom from the bondages of
good and evil. A golden chain is as much a chain as an iron one.
Shri Ramakrishna used to say that, to pick out one thorn which
has stuck into the foot, another thorn is requisitioned, and
when the thorn is taken out, both are thrown away. So the bad
tendencies are to be counteracted by the good ones, but after
that, the good tendencies have also to be conquered.
Q. -Can salvation (Mukti) be obtained without the grace of God?
A. -Salvation has nothing to do with God. Freedom already is.
Q. -What is the proof of the self in us not being the product of
the body etc.?
A. -The "ego" like its correlative "non-ego", is the product of
the body, mind etc. The only proof of the existence of the real
Self is realisation.
Q. -Who is a true Jnâni, and who is a true Bhakta?
A. -The true Jnani is he who has the deepest love within his
heart and at the same time is a practical seer of Advaita in his
outward relations. And the true Bhakta (lover) is he who,
realising his own soul as identified with the universal Soul,
and thus possessed of the true Jnana within, feels for and loves
everyone. Of Jnana and Bhakti he who advocates one and denounces
the other cannot be either a Jnani or a Bhakta, but he is a
thief and a cheat.
Q. -Why should a man serve Ishvara?
A. -If you once admit that there is such a thing as Ishvara
(God), you have numberless occasions to serve Him. Service of
the Lord means, according to all the scriptural authorities,
remembrance (Smarana). If you believe in the existence of God,
you will be reminded of Him at every step of your life.
Q. -Is Mâyâvâda different from Advaitâvada?
A. -No. They are identical. There is absolutely no other
explanation of Advaitavada except Mayavada.
Q. -How is it possible for God who is infinite to be limited in
the form of a man (as an Avatâra)?
A. -It is true that God is infinite, but not in the sense in
which you comprehend it. You have confounded your idea of
infinity with the materialistic idea of vastness. When you say
that God cannot take the form of a man, you understand that a
very, very large substance or form (as if material in nature),
cannot be compressed into a very, very small compass. God's
infinitude refers to the unlimitedness of a purely spiritual
entity, and as such, does not suffer in the least by expressing
itself in a human form.
Q. -Some say, "First of all become a Siddha (one who has
realised the Truth), and then you have the right to Karma, or
work for others", while others say that one should work for
others even from the beginning. How can both these views be
reconciled?
A. -You are confusing one thing with the other. Karma means
either service to humanity or preaching. To real preaching, no
doubt, none has the right except the Siddha Purusha, i.e. one
who has realised the Truth. But to service everyone has the
right, and not only so, but everyone is under obligation to
serve others, so long as he is accepting service from others.
V
YOGA, VAIRAGYA, TAPASYA, LOVE
Q. -Does Yoga serve to keep the body in its full health and
vitality?
A. -It does. It staves off disease. As objectification of one's
own body is difficult, it is very effective in regard to others.
Fruit and milk are the best food for Yogis.
Q. -Is the attainment of bliss synchronous with that of
Vairagya?
A. -The first step in Vairagya is very painful. When perfected,
it yields supreme bliss.
Q. -What is Tapasyâ?
A. -Tapasya is threefold -of the body, of speech and of mind.
The first is service of others; the second truthfulness; and
third, control and concentration.
Q. -Why do we not see that the same consciousness pervades the
ant as well as the perfected sage?
A. -Realising the unity of this manifestation is a question of
time only.
Q. -Is preaching possible without gaining perfection?
A. -No. May the Lord grant that all the Sannyasin disciples of
my Master and of myself be perfected, so that they may be fit
for missionary work!
Q. -Is the divine majesty expressed in the Universal Form of
Shri Krishna in the Gita superior to the expression of love
unattended with other attributes, embodied in the form of Shri
Krishna, for instance, in His relation with the Gopis?
A. -The feeling of love, unattended with the idea of divinity,
in respect to the person loved, is assuredly inferior to the
expression of divine majesty. If it were not so, all lovers of
the flesh would have obtained freedom.
VI
IN ANSWER TO NIVEDITA
(In answer to a few questions put by Sister Nivedita, Swamiji
jotted down the replies on May 24, 1900 at San Francisco.)
Q. -I cannot remember what parts Prithvi Rai and Chând disguised
themselves to play, when they determined to attend the
Svayamvara at Kanauj.
A. -Both went as minstrels.
Q. -Also did Prithvi Rai determine to marry Samyuktâ partly
because she was the daughter of his rival and partly for the
fame of her great beauty? Did he then send a woman-servant to
obtain the post of her maid? And did this old nurse set herself
to make the princess fall in love with Prithvi Rai?
A. -They had fallen in love with each other, hearing deeds and
beauty and seeing portraits. Falling in love through portraits
is an old Indian game.
Q. -How did Krishna come to be brought up amongst the shepherds?
A. -His father had to flee with the baby to save it from the
tyrant Kamsa, who ordered all the babes (male) from that year to
be killed, as (through prophecy) he was afraid one of them would
be Krishna and dethrone him. He kept Krishna's father and mother
in prison (who were his cousins) for fear of that prophecy.
Q. -How did this part of his life terminate?
A. -He came with his brother Baladeva and Nanda, his
foster-father, invited by the tyrant to a festival. (The tyrant
had plotted his destruction.) He killed the tyrant and instead
of taking the throne placed the nearest heir on it. Himself he
never took any fruit of action.
Q. -Can you give me any dramatic incident of this period?
A. -This period is full of miracles. He as a baby was once
naughty and the cowherd-mother tried to tie him with her
churning string and found she could not bind him with all the
strings she had. Then her eyes opened and she saw that she was
going to bind him who had the whole universe in his body. She
began to pray and tremble. Immediately the Lord touched her with
his Maya and she saw only the child.
Brahmâ, the chief of gods, disbelieving that the Lord had become
a cowherd, stole one day all the cows and cowherd boys and put
them to sleep in a cave. When he came back, he found the same
boys and cows round Krishna. Again he stole the new lot and hid
them away. He came back and saw there the same again. Then his
eyes opened and began to see numerous worlds and heavens and
Brahmans by the thousands, one greater than the preceding, in
the body of the Lord.
He danced on the serpent Kâliya who had been poisoning the water
of the Yamunâ, and he held up the mount Govardhana in defiance
of Indra whose worship he had forbidden and who in revenge
wanted to kill all the people of Vraja by deluge of rain. They
were all sheltered by Krishna under the hill Govardhana which he
upheld with a finger on their head.
He from his childhood was against snake-worship and
Indra-worship. Indra-worship is a Vedic ritual. Throughout the
Gita he is not favourable to Vedic ritual.
This is the period of his love to Gopis. He was eleven years of
age.
VII
GURU, AVATARA, YOGA, JAPA, SEVA
Q. -How can Vedanta be realised?
A. -By "hearing, reflection and meditation". Hearing must take
place from a Sad-guru. Even if one is not a regular disciple,
but is a fit aspirant and hears the Sad-guru's words, he is
liberated.
Q. -Who is a Sad-guru?
A. -A Sad-guru is one on whom the spiritual power has descended
by Guru-paramparâ, or an unbroken chain of discipleship.
To play the role of a spiritual teacher is a very difficult
thing. One has to take on oneself the sins of others. There is
every chance of a fall in less advanced men. If merely physical
pain ensues, then he should consider himself fortunate.
Q. -Cannot the spiritual teacher make the aspirant fit?
A. -An Avatâra can. Not an ordinary Guru.
Q. -Is there no easy way to liberation?
A. -"There is no royal road to Geometry" -except for those who
have been fortunate enough to come in contact with an Avatara.
Paramahamsa Deva used to say, "One who is having his last birth
shall somehow or other see me."
Q. -Is not Yoga an easy path to that?
A. -(Jokingly) You have said well, I see! -Yoga an easy path! If
your mind be not pure and you try to follow Yoga, you will
perhaps attain some supernatural power, but that will be a
hindrance. Therefore purity of mind is the first thing
necessary.
Q. -How can this be attained?
A. -By good work. Good work is of two kinds, positive and
negative. "Do not steal" -that is a negative mandate, and "Do
good to others" -is a positive one.
Q. -Should not doing good to others be performed in a higher
stage, for if performed in a lower stage, it may bind one to the
world?
A. -It should be performed in the first stage. One who has any
desire at first gets deluded and becomes bound, but not others.
Gradually it will become very natural.
Q. -Sir, last night you said, "In you is everything." Now, if I
want to be like Vishnu, shall I have to meditate on the form
also, or only on the idea?
A. -According to capacity one may follow either way.
Q. -What is the means of realisation?
A. -The Guru is the means of realisation. "There is no knowledge
without a teacher."
Q. -Some say that there is no necessity of practicing meditation
in a worship-room. How far is it true?
A. -Those who have already realised the Lord's presence may not
require it, but for others it is necessary. One, however, should
go beyond the form and meditate on the impersonal aspect of God,
for no form can grant liberation. You may get worldly prosperity
from the sight of the form. One who ministers to his mother
succeeds in this world; one who worships his father goes to
heaven; but the worshipper of a Sâdhu (holy man) gets knowledge
and devotion.
Q. -What is the meaning of "क्षणमिह सज्जनसंगतिरेका" etc. -Even a
moment's association with the holy ones serves to take one
beyond this relative existence"?
A. -A fit person coming in contact with a true Sadhu attains to
liberation. True Sadhus are very rare, but their influence is
such that a great writer has said, "Hypocrisy is the tribute
which vice pays to virtue." But Avataras are Kapâlamochanas,
that is, they can alter the doom of people. They can stir the
whole world. The least dangerous and best form of worship is
worshipping man. One who has got the idea of Brahman in a man
has realised it in the whole universe. Monasticism and the
householder's life are both good, according to different
circumstances. Knowledge is the only thing necessary.
Q. -Where should one meditate -inside the body or outside it?
Should the mind be withdrawn inside or held outside?
A. -We should try to meditate inside. As for the mind being here
or there, it will take a long time before we reach the mental
plane. Now our struggle is with the body. When one acquires a
perfect steadiness in posture, then and then alone one begins to
struggle with the mind. Âsana (posture) being conquered, one's
limbs remain motionless, and one can sit as long as one pleases.
Q. -Sometimes one gets tired of Japa (repetition of the Mantra).
Should one continue it or read some good book instead?
A. -One gets tired of Japa for two reasons. Sometimes one's
brain is fatigued, sometimes it is the result of idleness. If
the former, then one should give up Japa for the time being, for
persistence in it at the time results in seeing hallucinations,
or in lunacy etc. But if the latter, the mind should be forced
to continue Japa.
Q. -Sometimes sitting at Japa one gets joy at first, but then
one seems to be disinclined to continue the Japa owing to that
joy. Should it be continued then?
A.-Yes, that joy is a hindrance to spiritual practice, its name
being Rasâsvâdana (tasting of the sweetness). One must rise
above that.
Q. -Is it good to practice Japa for a long time, though the mind
may be wandering?
A. -Yes. As some people break a wild horse by always keeping his
seat on his back.
Q. -You have written in your Bhakti-Yoga that if a weak-bodied
man tries to practice Yoga, a tremendous reaction comes. Then
what to do?
A. -What fear if you die in the attempt to realise the Self! Man
is not afraid of dying for the sake of learning and many other
things, and why should you fear to die for religion?
Q. -Can Jiva-sevâ (service to beings) alone give Mukti ?
A. -Jiva-seva can give Mukti not directly but indirectly,
through the purification of the mind. But if you wish to do a
thing properly, you must, for the time being, think that that is
all-sufficient. The danger in any sect is want of zeal. There
must be constancy (Nishthâ), or there will be no growth. At
present it has become necessary to lay stress on Karma.
Q. -What should be our motive in work -compassion, or any other
motive?
A. -Doing good to others out of compassion is good, but the Seva
(service) of all beings in the spirit of the Lord is better.
Q. -What is the efficacy of prayer?
A. -By prayer one's subtle powers are easily roused, and if
consciously done, all desires may be fulfilled by it; but done
unconsciously, one perhaps in ten is fulfilled. Such prayer,
however, is selfish and should therefore be discarded.
Q. -How to recognise God when He has assumed a human form?
A. -One who can alter the doom of people is the Lord. No Sadhu,
however advanced, can claim this unique position. I do not see
anyone who realises Ramakrishna as God. We sometimes feel it
hazily, that is all. To realise Him as God and yet be attached
to the world is inconsistent.
Conversations and Dialogues
The CONVERSATIONS AND DIALOGUES are translated from the
contributions of disciples to the Udbodhan, the Bengali organ of
the Ramakrishna Math and Mission.
I
(Translated from Bengali)
THINK OF DEATH ALWAYS AND NEW LIFE WILL COME WITHIN -WORK FOR
OTHERS -GOD THE LAST REFUGE
[Shri Surendra Nath Das Gupta]
One day, with some of my young friends belonging to different
colleges, I went to the Belur Math to see Swamiji. We sat round
him; talks on various subjects were going on. No sooner was any
question put to him than he gave the most conclusive answer to
it. Suddenly he exclaimed, pointing to us, "You are all studying
different schools of European philosophy and metaphysics and
learning new facts about nationalities and countries; can you
tell me what is the grandest of all the truths in life?"
We began to think, but could not make out what he wanted us to
say. As none put forth any reply, he exclaimed in his inspiring
language:
"Look here -we shall all die! Bear this in mind always, and then
the spirit within will wake up. Then only, meanness will vanish
from you, practicality in work will come, you will get new
vigour in mind and body, and those who come in contact with you
will also feel that they have really got something uplifting
from you."
Then the following conversation took place between him and
myself:
Myself: But, Swamiji, will not the spirit break down at the
thought of death and the heart be overpowered by despondency?
Swamiji: Quite so. At first, the heart will break down, and
despondency and gloomy thoughts will occupy your mind. But
persist; let days pass like that -and then? Then you will see
that new strength has come into the heart, that the constant
thought of death is giving you a new life and is making you more
and more thoughtful by bringing every moment before your mind's
eye the truth of the saying, "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity!
" Wait! Let days, months, and years pass, and you will feel that
the spirit within is waking up with the strength of a lion, that
the little power within has transformed itself into a mighty
power! Think of death always, and you will realise the truth of
every word I say. What more shall I say in words!
One of my friends praised Swamiji in a low voice.
Swamiji: Do not praise me. Praise and censure have no value in
this world of ours. They only rock a man as if in a swing.
Praise I have had enough of; showers of censure I have also had
to bear; but what avails thinking of them! Let everyone go on
doing his own duty unconcerned. When the last moment arrives,
praise and blame will be the same to you, to me, and to others.
We are here to work, and will have to leave all when the call
comes
Myself: How little we are, Swamiji!
Swamiji: True! You have well said! Think of this infinite
universe with its millions and millions of solar systems, and
think with what an infinite, incomprehensible power they are
impelled, running as if to touch the Feet of the One Unknown
-and how little we are! Where then is room here to allow
ourselves to indulge in vileness and mean-mindedness? What
should we gain here by fostering mutual enmity and party-spirit?
Take my advice: Set yourselves wholly to the service of others,
when you come from your colleges. Believe me, far greater
happiness would then be yours than if you had had a whole
treasury full of money and other valuables at your command. As
you go on your way, serving others, you will advance accordingly
in the path of knowledge.
Myself: But we are so very poor, Swamiji!
Swamiji: Leave aside your thoughts of poverty! In what respect
are you poor? Do you feel regret because you have not a coach
and pair or a retinue of servants at your beck and call? What of
that? You little know how nothing would be impossible for you in
life if you labour day and night for others with your heart's
blood! And lo and behold! the other side of the hallowed river
of life stands revealed before your eyes -the screen of Death
has vanished, and you are the inheritors of the wondrous realm
of immortality!
Myself: Oh, how we enjoy sitting before you, Swamiji, and
hearing your life-giving words!
Swamiji: You see, in my travels throughout India all these
years, I have come across many a great soul, many a heart
overflowing with loving kindness, sitting at whose feet I used
to feel a mighty current of strength coursing into my heart, and
the few words I speak to you are only through the force of that
current gained by coming in contact with them! Do not think I am
myself something great!
Myself: But we look upon you, Swamiji, as one who has realised
God!
No sooner did I say these words than those fascinating eyes of
his were filled with tears (Oh, how vividly I, see that scene
before my eyes even now), and he with a heart overflowing with
love, softly and gently spoke: "At those Blessed Feet is the
perfection of Knowledge, sought by the Jnanis! At those Blessed
Feet also is the fulfilment of Love sought by the Lovers! Oh,
say, where else will men and women go for refuge but to those
Blessed Feet!"
After a while he again said, "Alas! what folly for men in this
world to spend their days fighting and quarrelling with one
another as they do! But how long can they go in that way? In the
evening of life (At the end of one's whole course of
transmigratory existence.) they must all come home, to the arms
of the Mother."
II
(Translated from Bengali)
THE LOSS OF SHRADDHA IN INDIA AND NEED OF ITS REVIVAL -MEN WE
WANT -REAL SOCIAL REFORM
[Shri Surendra Nath Sen -from private diary]
SATURDAY, THE 22ND JANUARY, 1898.
Early in the morning I came to Swamiji who was then staying in
the house of Balaram Babu at 57 Ramkanta Bose Street, Calcutta.
The room was packed full with listeners. Swamiji was saying, "We
want Shraddhâ, we want faith in our own selves. Strength is
life, weakness is death. 'We are the Âtman, deathless and free;
pure, pure by nature. Can we ever commit any sin? Impossible!'
-such a faith is needed. Such a faith makes men of us, makes
gods of us. It is by losing this idea of Shraddha that the
country has gone to ruin."
Question: How did we come to lose this Shraddha?
Swamiji: We have had a negative education all along from our
boyhood. We have only learnt that we are nobodies. Seldom are we
given to understand that great men were ever born in our
country. Nothing positive has been taught to us. We do not even
know how to use our hands and feet! We master all the facts and
figures concerning the ancestors of the English, but we are
sadly unmindful about our own. We have learnt only weakness.
Being a conquered race, we have brought ourselves to believe
that we are weak and have no independence in anything. So, how
can it be but that the Shraddha is lost? The idea of true
Shraddha must be brought back once more to us, the faith in our
own selves must be reawakened, and, then only, all the problems
which face our country will gradually be solved by ourselves.
Q. How can that ever be? How will Shraddha alone remedy the
innumerable evils with which our society is beset? Besides,
there are so many crying evils in the country, to remove which
the Indian National Congress and other patriotic associations
are carrying on a strenuous agitation and petitioning the
British government. How better can their wants be made known?
What has Shraddha to do with the matter?
Swamiji: Tell me, whose wants are those -yours or the ruler's?
If yours, will the ruler supply them for you, or will you have
to do that for yourselves?
Q. But it is the ruler's duty to see to the wants of the subject
people. Whom should we look up to for everything, if not to the
king?
Swamiji: Never are the wants of a beggar fulfilled. Suppose the
government give you all you need, where are the men who are able
to keep up the things demanded? So make men first. Men we want,
and how can men be made unless Shraddha is there?
Q. But such is not the view Of the majority, sir.
Swamiji: What you call majority is mainly composed of fools and
men of common intellect. Men who have brains to think for
themselves are few, everywhere. These few men with brains are
the real leaders in everything and in every department of work;
the majority are guided by them as with a string, and that is
good, for everything goes all right when they follow in the
footsteps of these leaders. Those are only fools who think
themselves too high to bend their heads to anyone, and they
bring on their own ruin by acting on their own judgment. You
talk of social reform? But what do you do? All that you mean by
your social reform is either widow remarriage, or female
emancipation, or something of that sort. Do you not? And these
again are directed within the confines of a few of the castes
only. Such a scheme of reform may do good to a few no doubt, but
of what avail is that to the whole nation? Is that reform or
only a form of selfishness -somehow to cleanse your own room and
keep it tidy and let others go from bad to worse!
Q. Then, you mean to say that there is no need of social reform
at all?
Swamiji: Who says so? Of course there is need of it. Most of
what you talk of as social reform does not touch the poor
masses; they have already those things -the widow remarriage,
female emancipation, etc. -which you cry for. For this reason
they will not think of those things as reforms at all. What I
mean to say is that want of Shraddha has brought in all the
evils among us, and is bringing in more and more. My method of
treatment is to take out by the roots the very causes of the
disease and not to keep them merely suppressed. Reforms we
should have in many ways; who will be so foolish as to deny it?
There is, for example, a good reason for intermarriage in India,
in the absence of which the race is becoming physically weaker
day by day.
Since it was a day of a solar eclipse, the gentleman who was
asking these questions saluted Swamiji and left saying "I must
go now for a bath in the Ganga. I shall, however, come another
day."
III
RECONCILIATION OF JNANA-YOGA AND BHAKTI-YOGA -GOD IN GOOD AND IN
EVIL TOO -USE MAKES A THING GOOD OR EVIL -KARMA -CREATION -GOD
-MAYA
[Shri Surendra Nath Sen -from private diary]
SUNDAY, THE 23RD JANUARY, 1898.
It was evening and the occasion of the weekly meeting of the
Ramakrishna Mission, at the house of Balaram Babu of Baghbazar.
Swami Turiyananda, Swami Yogananda, Swami Premananda, and others
had come from the Math. Swamiji was seated in the verandah to
the east, which was now full of people, as were the northern and
the southern sections of the verandah. But such used to be the
case every day when Swamiji stayed in Calcutta.
Many of the people who came to the meeting had heard that
Swamiji could sing well, and so were desirous of hearing him.
Knowing this, Master Mahâshaya (M.) whispered to a few gentlemen
near him to request Swamiji to sing; but he saw through their
intention and playfully asked, "Master Mahashaya, what are you
talking about among yourselves in whispers? Do speak out." At
the request of Master Mahashaya, Swamiji now began in his
charming voice the song -"Keep with loving care the darling
Mother Shyâmâ in thy heart. . . ." It seemed as if a Vinâ was
playing. At its close, he said to Master Mahashaya, "Well, are
you now satisfied? But no more singing! Otherwise, being in the
swing of it, I shall be carried away by its intoxication.
Moreover, my voice is now spoilt be frequent lecturing in the
West. My voice trembles a great deal. . . ."
Swamiji then asked one of his Brahmacharin disciples to speak on
the real nature of Mukti. So, the Brahmacharin stood up and
spoke at some length. A few others followed him. Swamiji then
invited discussion on the subject of the discourse, and called
upon one of his householder disciples to lead it; but as the
latter tried to advocate the Advaita and Jnâna and assign a
lower place to dualism and Bhakti, he met with a protest from
one of the audience. As each of the two opponents tried to
establish his own viewpoint, a lively word-fight ensued. Swamiji
watched them for a while but, seeing that they were getting
excited, silenced them with the following words:
Why do you get excited in argument and spoil everything? Listen!
Shri Ramakrishna used to say that pure knowledge and pure Bhakti
are one and the same. According to the doctrine of Bhakti, God
is held to be "All-Love". One cannot even say, "I love Him", for
the reason that He is All-Love. There is no love outside of
Himself; the love that is in the heart with which you love Him
is even He Himself. In a similar way, whatever attractions or
inclinations one feels drawn by, are all He Himself. The thief
steals, the harlot sells her body to prostitution, the mother
loves her child -in each of these too is He! One world system
attracts another -there also is He. Everywhere is He. According
to the doctrine of Jnana also, He is realised by one everywhere.
Here lies the reconciliation of Jnana and Bhakti. When one is
immersed in the highest ecstasy of divine vision (Bhâva), or is
in the state of Samâdhi, then alone the idea of duality ceases,
and the distinction between the devotee and his God vanishes. In
the scriptures on Bhakti, five different paths of relationship
are mentioned, by any of which one can attain to God; but
another one can very well be added to them, viz. the path of
meditation on the non-separateness, or oneness with God. Thus
the Bhakta can call the Advaitins Bhaktas as well, but of the
non-differentiating type. As long as one is within the region of
Mâya, so long the idea of duality will no doubt remain.
Space-time-causation, or name-and-form, is what is called Maya.
When one goes beyond this Maya, then only the Oneness is
realised, and then man is neither a dualist nor an Advaitist -
to him all is One. All this difference that you notice between a
Bhakta and a Jnani is in the preparatory stage - one sees God
outside, and the other sees Him within. But there is another
point: Shri Ramakrishna used to say that there is another stage
of Bhakti which is called the Supreme Devotion (Parâbhakti) i.e.
to love Him after becoming established in the consciousness of
Advaita and after having attained Mukti. It may seem
paradoxical, and the question may be raised here why such a one
who has already attained Mukti should be desirous of retaining
the spirit of Bhakti? The answer is: The Mukta or the Free is
beyond all law; no law applies in his case, and hence no
question can be asked regarding him. Even becoming Mukta, some,
out of their own free will, retain Bhakti to taste of its
sweetness.
Q. God may be in the love of the mother for her child; but, sir,
this idea is really perplexing that God is even in thieves and
the harlots in the form of their natural inclinations to sin! It
follows then that God is as responsible for the sin as for all
the virtue in this world.
Swamiji: That consciousness comes in a stage of highest
realization, when one sees that whatever is of the nature of
love or attraction is God. But one has to reach that state to
see and realise that idea for oneself in actual life.
Q. But still one has to admit that God is also in the sin!
Swamiji: You see, there are, in reality, no such different
things as good and evil. They are mere conventional terms. The
same thing we call bad, and again another time we call good,
according to the way we make use of it. Take for example this
lamplight; because of its burning, we are able to see and do
various works of utility; this is one mode of using the light.
Again, if you put your fingers in it, they will be burnt; that
is another mode of using the same light. So we should know that
a thing becomes good or bad according to the way we use it.
Similarly with virtue and vice. Broadly speaking, the proper use
of any of the faculties of our mind and body is termed virtue,
and its improper application or waste is called vice.
Thus questions after questions were put and answered. Someone
remarked, "The theory that God is even there, where one heavenly
body attracts another, may or may not be true as a fact, but
there is no denying the exquisite poetry the idea conveys."
Swamiji: No, my dear sir, that is not poetry. One can see for
oneself its truth when one attains knowledge.
From what Swamiji further said on this point, I understood him
to mean that matter and spirit, though to all appearances they
seem to be two distinct things, are really two different forms
of one substance; and similarly, all the different forces that
are known to us, whether in the material or in the internal
world, are but varying forms of the manifestation of one Force.
We call a thing matter, where that spirit force is manifested
less; and living, where it shows itself more; but there is
nothing which is absolutely matter at all times and in all
conditions. The same Force which presents itself in the material
world as attraction or gravitation is felt in its finer and
subtler state as love and the like in the higher spiritual
stages of realisation.
Q. Why should there be even this difference relating to
individual use? Why should there be at all this tendency in man
to make bad or improper use of any of his faculties?
Swamiji: That tendency comes as a result of one's own past
actions (Karma); everything one has is of his own doing. Hence
it follows that it is solely in the hands of every individual to
control his tendencies and to guide them properly.
Q. Even if everything is the result of our Karma, still it must
have had a beginning, and why should our tendencies have been
good or bad at the beginning?
Swamiji: How do you know that there is a beginning? The Srishti
(creation) is without beginning -this is the doctrine of the
Vedas. So long as there is God, there is creation as well.
Q. Well, sir, why is this Maya here, and whence has it come?
Swamiji: It is a mistake to ask "why" with respect to God; we
can only do so regarding one who has wants or imperfections. How
can there be an, "why" concerning Him who has no wants and who
is the One Whole? No such question as "Whence has Maya come?"
can be asked. Time-space-causation is what is called Maya. You,
I, and everyone else are within this Maya; and you are asking
about what is beyond Maya! How can you do so while living within
Maya?
Again, many questions followed. The conversation turned on the
philosophies of Mill, Hamilton, Herbert Spencer, etc., and
Swamiji dwelt on them to the satisfaction of all. Everyone
wondered at the vastness of his Western philosophical
scholarship and the promptness of his replies.
The meeting dispersed after a short conversation on
miscellaneous subjects.
IV
INTERMARRIAGE AMONG SUBDIVISIONS OF A VARNA -AGAINST EARLY
MARRIAGE -THE EDUCATION THAT INDIANS NEED -BRAHMACHARYA
[Shri Surendra Nath Sen -from private diary]
MONDAY, THE 24TH JANUARY, 1898.
The same gentleman who was asking questions of Swamiji on
Saturday last came again. He raised again the topic of
intermarriage and enquired, "How should inter-marriage be
introduced between different nationalities?"
Swamiji: I do not advise our intermarriage with nations
professing an alien religion. At least for the present, that
will, of a certainty, slacken the ties of society and be a cause
of manifold mischief. It is the intermarriage between people of
the same religion that I advocate.
Q. Even then, it will involve much perplexity. Suppose I have a
daughter who is born and brought up in Bengal, and I marry her
to a Marathi or a Madrasi. Neither will the girl understand her
husband's language nor the husband the girl's. Again, the
difference in their individual habits and customs is so great.
Such are a few of the troubles in the case of the married
couple. Then as regards society, it will make confusion worse
confounded.
Swamiji: The time is yet very long in coming when marriages of
that kind will be widely possible. Besides, it is not judicious
now to go in for that all of a sudden. One of the secrets of
work is to go along the line of least resistance. So, first of
all, let there be marriages within the sphere of one's own
caste-people. Take for instance, the Kayasthas of Bengal. They
have several subdivisions amongst them, such as, the
Uttar-rârhi, Dakshin-rârhi, Bangaja, etc., and they do not
intermarry with each other. Now, let there be intermarriages
between the Uttar-rarhis and the Dakshin-rarhis, and if that is
not possible at present, let it be between the Bangajas and the
Dakshin-rarhis. Thus we are to build up that which is already
existing, and which is in our hands to reduce into practice -
reform does not mean wholesale breaking down.
Q. Very well, let it be as you say: but what corresponding good
can come of it?
Swamiji: Don't you see how in our society, marriage, being
restricted for several hundreds of years within the same
subdivisions of each caste, has come to such a pass nowadays as
virtually to mean marital alliance between cousins and near
relations; and how for this very reason the race is getting
deteriorated physically, and consequently all sorts of disease
and other evils are finding a ready entrance into it? The blood
having had to circulate within the narrow circle of a limited
number of individuals has become vitiated; so the new-born
children inherit from their very birth the constitutional
diseases of their fathers. Thus, born with poor blood, their
bodies have very little power to resist the microbes of any
disease, which are ever ready to prey upon them. It is only by
widening the circle of marriage that we can infuse a new and a
different kind of blood into our progeny, so that they may be
saved from the clutches of many of our present-day diseases and
other consequent evils.
Q. May I ask you, sir, what is your opinion about early
marriage?
Swamiji: Amongst the educated classes in Bengal, the custom of
marrying their boys too early is dying out gradually. The girls
are also given in marriage a year or two older than before, but
that has been under compulsion -from pecuniary want. Whatever
might be the reason for it, the age of marrying girls should be
raised still higher. But what will the poor father do? As soon
as the girl grows up a little, every one of the female sex,
beginning with the mother down to the relatives and neighbours
even, will begin to cry out that he must find a bridegroom for
her, and will not leave him in peace until he does so! And,
about your religious hypocrites, the less said the better. In
these days no one hears them, but still they will take up the
role of leaders themselves. The rulers passed the Age of Consent
Bill prohibiting a man under the threat of penalty to live with
a girl of twelve years, and at once all these so-called leaders
of your religion raised a tremendous hue and cry against it,
sounding the alarm, "Alas, our religion is lost! As if religion
consisted in making a girl a mother at the age of twelve or
thirteen! So the rulers also naturally think, "Goodness
gracious! What a religion is theirs! And these people lead
political agitations and demand political rights!"
Q. Then, in your opinion, both men and women should be married
at an advanced age?
Swamiji: Certainly. But education should be imparted along with
it, otherwise irregularity and corruption will ensue. By
education I do not mean the present system, but something in the
line of positive teaching. Mere book-learning won't do. We want
that education by which character is formed, strength of mind is
increased, the intellect is expanded, and by which one can stand
on one's own feet.
Q. We have to reform our women in many ways.
Swamiji: With such an education women will solve their own
problems. They have all the time been trained in helplessness,
servile dependence on others, and so they are good only to weep
their eyes out at the slightest approach of a mishap or danger.
Along with other things they should acquire the spirit of valour
and heroism. In the present day it has become necessary for them
also to learn self-defence. See how grand was the Queen of
Jhansi!
Q. What you advise is quite a new departure, and it will, I am
afraid, take a very long time yet to train our women in that
way.
Swamiji: Anyhow, we have to try our best. We have not only to
teach them but to teach ourselves also. Mere begetting children
does not make a father; a great many responsibilities have to be
taken upon one's shoulders as well. To make a beginning in
women's education: our Hindu women easily understand what
chastity means, because it is their heritage. Now, first of all,
intensify that ideal within them above everything else, so that
they may develop a strong character by the force of which, in
every stage of their life, whether married, or single if they
prefer to remain so, they will not be in the least afraid even
to give up their lives rather than flinch an inch from their
chastity. Is it little heroism to be able to sacrifice one's
life for the sake of one's ideal whatever that ideal may be?
Studying the present needs of the age, it seems imperative to
train some women up in the ideal of renunciation, so that they
will take up the vow of lifelong virginity, fired with the
strength of that virtue of chastity which is innate in their
life-blood from hoary antiquity. Along with that they should be
taught sciences and other things which would be of benefit, not
only to them but to others as well, and knowing this they would
easily learn these things and feel pleasure in doing so. Our
motherland requires for her well-being some of her children to
become such pure-souled Brahmachârins and Brahmachârinis.
Q. In what way will that conduce to her well-being?
Swamiji: By their example and through their endeavours to hold
the national ideal before the eyes of the people, a revolution
in thoughts and aspirations will take place. How do matters
stand now? Somehow, the parents must dispose of a girl in
marriage, if she he nine or ten years of age! And what a
rejoicing of the whole family if a child is born to her at the
age of thirteen! If the trend of such ideas is reversed, then
only there is some hope for the ancient Shraddhâ to return. And
what to talk of those who will practice Brahmacharya as defined
above -think how much faith in themselves will be theirs! And
what a power for good they will be!
The questioner now saluted Swamiji and was ready to take leave.
Swamiji asked him to come now and then "Certainly, sir," replied
the gentleman, "I feel so much benefited. I have heard from you
many new things, which I have not been told anywhere before." I
also went home as it was about time for dinner.
V
MADHURA-BHAVA -PREMA -NAMAKIRTANA -ITS DANGER -BHAKTI TEMPERED
WITH JNANA -A CURIOUS DREAM
[Shri Surendra Nath Sen -from private diary]
MONDAY, THE 24TH JANUARY, 1898.
In the afternoon I came again to Swamiji and saw quite a good
gathering round him. The topic was the Madhura-Bhâva or the way
of worshipping God as husband, as in vogue with some followers
of Shri Chaitanya. His occasional bons mots were raising
laughter, when someone remarked, "What is there to make so much
fun of about the Lord's doings? Do you think that he was not a
great saint, and that he did not do everything for the good of
humanity?"
Swamiji: Who is that! Should I poke fun at you then, my dear
sir! You only see the fun of it, do you? And you, sir, do not
see the lifelong struggle through which I have passed to mould
this life after his burning ideal of renunciation of wealth and
lust, and my endeavours to infuse that ideal into the people at
large! Shri Chaitanya was a man of tremendous renunciation and
had nothing to do with woman and carnal appetites. But, in later
times, his disciples admitted women into their order, mixed
indiscriminately with them in his name, and made an awful mess
of the whole thing. And the ideal of love which the Lord
exemplified in his life was perfectly selfless and bereft of any
vestige of lust; that sexless love can never be the property of
the masses. But the subsequent Vaishnava Gurus, instead of
laying particular stress first on the aspect of renunciation in
the Master's life, bestowed all their zeal on preaching and
infusing his ideal of love among the masses, and the consequence
was that the common people could not grasp and assimilate that
high ideal of divine love, and naturally made of it the worst
form of love between man and woman.
Q. But, sir, he preached the name of the Lord Hari to all, even
to the Chandâlas; so why should not the common masses have a
right to it?
Swamiji: I am talking not of his preaching, but of his great
ideal of love -the Râdhâ-prema (The divine love which Radha had
towards Shri Krishna.), with which he used to remain intoxicated
day and night, losing his individuality in Radha.
Q. Why may not that be made the common property of all?
Swamiji: Look at this nation and see what has been the outcome
of such an attempt. Through the preaching of that love
broadcast, the whole nation has become effeminate -a race of
women! The whole of Orissa has been turned into a land of
cowards; and Bengal, running after the Radha-prema, these past
four hundred years, has almost lost all sense of manliness! The
people are very good only at crying and weeping; that has become
their national trait. Look at their literature, the sure index
of a nation's thoughts and ideas. Why, the refrain of the
Bengali literature for these four hundred years is strung to
that same tune of moaning and crying. It has failed to give
birth to any poetry which breathes a true heroic spirit!
Q. Who are then truly entitled to possess that Prema (love)?
Swamiji: There can be no love so long as there is lust -even as
speck of it, as it were, in the heart. None but men of great
renunciation, none but mighty giants among men, have a right to
that Love Divine. If that highest ideal of love is held out to
the masses, it will indirectly tend to stimulate its worldly
prototype which dominates the heart of man -for, meditating on
love to God by thinking of oneself as His wife or beloved, one
would very likely be thinking most of the time of one's own wife
-the result is too obvious to point out.
Q. Then is it impossible for householders to realise God through
that path of love, worshipping God as one's husband or lover and
considering oneself as His spouse?
Swamiji : With a few exceptions; for ordinary householders it is
impossible no doubt. And why lay so much stress on this delicate
path, above all others? Are there no other relationships by
which to worship God, except this Madhura idea of love? Why not
follow the four other paths, and take the name of the Lord with
all your heart? Let the heart be opened first, and all else will
follow of itself. But know this for certain, that Prema cannot
come while there is lust. Why not try first to get rid of carnal
desires? You will say, "How is that possible? I am a
householder." Nonsense! Because one is a householder, does it
mean that one should be a personification of incontinence, or
that one has to live in marital relations all one's life? And,
after all, how unbecoming of a man to make of himself a woman,
so that he may practice this Madhura love!
Q. True, sir. Singing God's name in a party (Nâmakirtana) is an
excellent help and gives one a joyous feeling. So say our
scriptures, and so did Shri Chaitanya Deva also preach to the
masses. When the Khole (drum) is played upon, it makes the heart
leap with such a transport that one feels inclined to dance.
Swamiji: That is all right, but don't think that Kirtana means
dancing only. It means singing the glories of God, in whatever
way that suits you. That vehement stirring up of feeling and
that dancing of the Vaishnavas are good and very catching no
doubt; but there is also a danger in practising them, from which
you must save yourself. The danger lies here -in the reaction.
On the one hand, the feelings are at once roused to the highest
pitch, tears flow from the eyes, the head reels as it were under
intoxication -on the other hand, as soon as the Sankirtan stops,
that mass of feeling sinks down as precipitately as it rose. The
higher the wave rises on the ocean, the lower it falls, with
equal force. It is very difficult at that stage to contain
oneself against the shock of reaction; unless one has proper
discrimination, one is likely to succumb to the lower
propensities of lust etc. I have noticed the same thing in
America also. Many would go to church, pray with much devotion,
sing with great feeling, and even burst into tears when hearing
the sermons; but after coming out of church, they would have a
great reaction and succumb to carnal tendencies.
Q. Then, sir, do instruct us which of the ideas preached by Shri
Chaitanya we should take up as well suited to us, so that we may
not fall into errors.
Swamiji: Worship God with Bhakti tempered with Jnâna. Keep the
spirit of discrimination along with Bhakti. Besides this, gather
from Shri Chaitanya, his heart, his loving kindness to all
beings, his burning passion for God, and make his renunciation
the ideal of your life.
The questioner now addressed the Swamiji with folded hands, "I
beg your pardon, sir. Now I come to see you are right. Seeing
you criticise in a playful mood the Madhura love of the
Vaishnavas, I could not at first understand the drift of your
remarks; hence I took exception to them."
Swamiji: Well, look here, if we are to criticise at all, it is
better to criticise God or God-men. If you abuse me I shall very
likely get angry with you, and if I abuse you, you will try to
retaliate. Isn't it so? But God or God-men will never return
evil for evil.
The gentleman now left, after bowing down at the feet of
Swamiji. I have already said that such a gathering was an
everyday occurrence when Swamiji used to stay in Calcutta. From
early in the morning till eight or nine at night, men would
flock to him at every hour of the day. This naturally occasioned
much irregularity in the time of his taking his meals; so, many
desiring to put a stop to this state of things, strongly advised
Swamiji not to receive visitors except at appointed hours. But
the loving heart of Swamiji, ever ready to go to any length to
help others, was so melted with compassion at the sight of such
a thirst for religion in the people, that in spite of ill
health, he did not comply with any request of the kind. His only
reply was, "They take so much trouble to come walking all the
way from their homes, and can I, for the consideration of
risking my health a little, sit here and not speak a few words
to them?"
At about 4 p.m. the general conversation came to a close, and
the gathering dispersed, except for a few gentlemen with whom
Swamiji continued his talk on different subjects, such as
England and America, and so on. In the course of conversation he
said:
"I had a curious dream on my return voyage from England. While
our ship was passing through the Mediterranean Sea, in my sleep,
a very old and venerable looking person, Rishi-like in
appearance, stood before me and said, 'Do ye come and effect our
restoration. I am one of that ancient order of Therâputtas
(Theraputae) which had its origin in the teachings of the Indian
Rishis. The truths and ideals preached by us have been given out
by Christians as taught by Jesus; but for the matter of that,
there was no such personality by the name of Jesus ever born.
Various evidences testifying to this fact will be brought to
light by excavating here.' 'By excavating which place can those
proofs and relics you speak of be found?' I asked. The
hoary-headed one, pointing to a locality in the vicinity of
Turkey, said, 'See here.' Immediately after, I woke up, and at
once rushed to the upper deck and asked the Captain, 'What
neighbourhood is the ship in just now?' 'Look yonder', the
Captain replied, 'there is Turkey and the Island of Crete.'"
Was it but a dream, or is there anything in the above vision?
Who knows!
VI
(Translated from Bengali VI & VII)
REMINISCENCES -THE PROBLEM OF FAMINES IN INDIA AND
SELF-SACRIFICING WORKERS -EAST AND WEST -IS IT SATTVA OR TAMAS
-A NATION OF MENDICANTS -THE "GIVE AND TAKE" POLICY -TELL A MAN
HIS DEFECTS DIRECTLY BUT PRAISE HIS VIRTUES BEFORE OTHERS
-VIVEKANANDA EVERYONE MAY BECOME -UNBROKEN BRAHMACHARYA IS THE
SECRET OF POWER -SAMADHI AND WORK
[Shri Priya Nath Sinha]
Our house was very close to Swamiji's, and since we were boys of
the same section of the town, I often used to play with him.
From my boyhood I had a special attraction for him, and I had a
sincere belief that he would become a great man. When he became
a Sannyasin we thought that the promise of a brilliant career
for such a man was all in vain.
Afterwards, when he went to America, I read in newspapers
reports of his lectures at the Chicago Parliament of Religions
and others delivered in various place, of America, and I thought
that fire can never remain hidden under a cloth; the fire that
was within Swamiji had now burst into a flame; the bud after so
many years had blossomed.
After a time I came to know that he had returned to India, and
had been delivering fiery lectures at Madras. I read them and
wondered that such sublime truths existed in the Hindu religion
and that they could be explained so lucidly. What an
extraordinary power he had! Was he a man or a god?
A great enthusiasm prevailed when Swamiji came to Calcutta, and
we followed him to the Sil's garden-house, on the Ganga, at
Cossipore. A few days later, at the residence of Raja Radhakanta
Dev, the "Calcutta boy" delivered an inspiring lecture to a huge
concourse of people in reply to an address of welcome, and
Calcutta heard him for the first time and was lost in
admiration. But these are facts known to all.
After his coming to Calcutta, I was very anxious to see him once
alone and be able to talk freely with him as in our boyhood. But
there was always a gathering of eager inquirers about him, and
conversations were going on without a break; so I did not get an
opportunity for some time, until one day when we went out for a
walk in the garden on the Ganga side. He at once began to talk,
as of old, to me, the playmate of his boyhood. No sooner had a
few words passed between us than repeated calls came, informing
him that many gentlemen had come to see him. He became a little
impatient at last and told the messenger, "Give me a little
respite, my son; let me speak a few words with this companion of
my boyhood; let me stay in the open air for a while. Go and give
a welcome to those who have come, ask them to sit down, offer
them tobacco, and request them to wait a little."
When we were alone again, I asked him, "Well, Swamiji, you are a
Sâdhu (holy man). Money was raised by subscription for your
reception here, and I thought, in view of the famine in this
country, that you would wire, before arriving in Calcutta,
saying, 'Don't spend a single pice on my reception, rather
contribute the whole sum to the famine relief fund'; but I found
that you did nothing of the kind. How was that?"
Swamiji: Why, I wished rather that a great enthusiasm should be
stirred up. Don't you see, without some such thing how would the
people be drawn towards Shri Ramakrishna and be fired in his
name? Was this ovation done for me personally, or was not his
name glorified by this? See how much thirst has been created in
the minds of men to know about him! Now they will come to know
of him gradually, and will not that be conducive to the good of
the country? If the people do not know him who came for the
welfare of the country, how can good befall them? When they know
what he really was, then men -real men -will be made; and when
will be such men, how long will it take to drive away famines
etc. from the land? So I say that I rather desired that there
should be some bustle and stir in Calcutta, so that the public
might be inclined to believe in the mission of Shri Ramakrishna;
otherwise what was the use of making so much fuss for my sake?
What do I care for it? Have I become any greater now than when I
used to play with you at your house? I am the same now as I was
before. Tell me, do you find any change in me?
Though I said, "No, I do not find much change to speak of", yet
in my mind I thought, "You have now, indeed, become a god."
Swamiji continued: "Famine has come to be a constant quantity in
our country, and now it is, as it were, a sort of blight upon
us. Do you find in any other country such frequent ravages of
famine? No, because there are men in other countries, while in
ours, men have become akin to dead matter, quite inert. Let the
people first learn to renounce their selfish nature by studying
Shri Ramakrishna, by knowing him as he really was, and then will
proceed from them real efforts trying to stop the frequently
recurring famines. By and by I shall make efforts in that
direction too; you will see."
Myself: That will be good. Then you are going to deliver many
lectures here, I presume; otherwise, how will his name be
preached?
Swamiji: What nonsense! Nothing of the kind!
Has anything left undone by which his name can be known? Enough
has been done in that line. Lectures won't do any good in this
country. Our educated countrymen would hear them and, at best,
would cheer and clap their hands, saying, "Well done"; that is
all. Then they would go home and digest, as we say, everything
they had heard, with their meal! What good will hammering do on
a piece of rusty old iron? It will only crumble into pieces.
First, it should be made red-hot, and then it can be moulded
into any shape by hammering. Nothing will avail in our country
without setting a glowing and living example before the people.
What we want are some young men who will renounce everything and
sacrifice their lives for their country's sake. We should first
form their lives and then some real work can be expected.
Myself: Well, Swamiji, it has always puzzled me that, while men
of our country, unable to understand their own religion, were
embracing alien religions, such as Christianity, Mohammedanism,
etc., you, instead of doing anything for them, went over to
England and America to preach Hinduism.
Swamiji: Don't you see that circumstances have changed now? Have
the men of our country the power left in them to take up and
practice true religion? What they have is only pride in
themselves that they are very Sâttvika. Time was when they were
Sattvika, no doubt, but now they have fallen very low. The fall
from Sattva brings one down headlong into Tamas! That is what
has happened to them. Do you think that a man who does not exert
himself at all, who only takes the name of Hari, shutting
himself up in a room, who remains quiet and indifferent even
when seeing a huge amount of wrong and violence done to others
before his very eyes, possesses the quality of Sattva? Nothing
of the kind, he is only enshrouded in dark Tamas. How can the
people of a country practice religion who do not get even
sufficient food to appease their hunger? How can renunciation
come to the people of a country in whose minds the desires for
Bhoga (enjoyment) have not been in the least satisfied? For this
reason, find out, first of all, the ways and means by which men
may get enough to eat and have enough luxuries to enable them to
enjoy life a little; and then gradually, true Vairâgya
(dispassion) will come, and they will be fit and ready to
realise religion in life. The people of England and America, how
full of Rajas they are! They have become satiated with all sorts
of worldly enjoyment. Moreover, Christianity, being a religion
of faith and superstition, occupies the same rank as our
religion of the Purânas. With the spread of education and
culture, the people of the West can no more find peace in that.
Their present condition is such that, giving them one lift will
make them reach the Sattva. Then again, in these days, would you
accept the words of a Sannyasin clad in rags, in the same degree
as you would the words of a white-face (Westerner) who might
come and speak to you on your own religion?
Myself: Just so, Swamiji! Mr. N. N. Ghosh (A celebrated
barrister, journalist, and educationist of Calcutta.) also
speaks exactly to the same effect.
Swamiji: Yes, when my Western disciples after acquiring proper
training and illumination will come in numbers here and ask you,
"What are you all doing? Why are you of so little faith? How are
your rites and religion, manners, customs, and morals in any way
inferior? We even regard your religion to be the highest!" -then
you will see that lots of our big and influential folk will hear
them. Thus they will be able to do immense good to this country.
Do not think for a moment that they will come to take up the
position of teachers of religion to you. They will, no doubt, be
your Guru regarding practical sciences etc., for the improvement
of material conditions, and the people of our country will be
their Guru in everything pertaining to religion. This relation
of Guru and disciple in the domain of religion will forever
exist between India and the rest of the world.
Myself: How can that be, Swamiji? Considering the feeling of
hatred with which they look upon us, it does not seem probable
that they will ever do good to us, purely from an unselfish
motive.
Swamiji: They find many reasons to hate us, and so they may
justify themselves in doing so. In the first place, we are a
conquered race, and moreover there is nowhere in the world such
a nation of mendicants as we are! The masses who comprise the
lowest castes, through ages of constant tyranny of the higher
castes and by being treated by them with blows and kicks at
every step they took, have totally lost their manliness and
become like professional beggars; and those who are removed one
stage higher than these, having read a few pages of English,
hang about the thresholds of public offices with petitions in
their hands. In the case of a post of twenty or thirty rupees
falling vacant, five hundred B.A.s and M.A.s will apply for it!
And, dear me! how curiously worded these petitions are! "I have
nothing to eat at home, sir, my wife and children are starving;
I most humbly implore you, sir, to give me some means to provide
for myself and my family, or we shall die of starvation! " Even
when they enter into service, they cast all self-respect to the
winds, and servitude in its worst form is what they practice.
Such is the condition, then, of the masses. The highly-educated,
prominent men among you form themselves into societies and
clamour at the top of their voices: "Alas, India is going to
ruin, day by day! O English rulers, admit our countrymen to the
higher offices of the State, relieve us from famines" and so on,
thus rending the air, day and night, with the eternal cry of
"Give" and "Give"! The burden of all their speech is, "Give to
us, give more to us, O Englishmen! " Dear me! what more will
they give to you? They have given railways, telegraphs,
well-ordered administration to the country -have almost entirely
suppressed robbers, have given education in science -what more
will they give? What does anyone give to others with perfect
unselfishness? Well, they have given you so much; let me ask,
what have you given to them in return?
Myself: What have we to give, Swamiji? We pay taxes.
Swamiji: Do you, really? Do you give taxes to them of your own
will, or do they exact them by compulsion because they keep
peace in the country? Tell me plainly, what do you give them in
return for all that they have done for you? You also have
something to give them that they have not. You go to England,
but that is also in the garb of a beggar -praying for education.
Some go, and what they do there at the most is, perchance, to
applaud the Westerner's religion in some speeches and then come
back. What an achievement, indeed! Why, have you nothing to give
them? An inestimable treasure you have, which you can give -give
them your religion, give them your philosophy! Study the history
of the whole world, and you will see that every high ideal you
meet with anywhere had its origin in India. From time immemorial
India has been the mine of precious ideas to human society;
giving birth to high ideas herself, she has freely distributed
them broadcast over the whole world. The English are in India
today, to gather those higher ideals, to acquire a knowledge of
the Vedanta, to penetrate into the deep mysteries of that
eternal religion which is yours. Give those invaluable gems in
exchange for what you receive from them. The Lord took me to
their country to remove this opprobrium of the beggar that is
attributed by them to us. It is not right to go to England for
the purpose of begging only. Why should they always give us
alms? Does anyone do so forever? It is not the law of nature to
be always taking gifts with outstretched hands like beggars. To
give and take is the law of nature. Any individual or class or
nation that does not obey this law never prospers in life. We
also must follow that law That is why I went to America. So
great is now the thirst for religion in the people there that
there is room enough even if thousands of men like me go. They
have been for a long time giving you of what wealth they
possess, and now is the time for you to share your priceless
treasure with them. And you will see how their feelings of
hatred will be quickly replaced by those of faith, devotion, and
reverence towards you, and how they will do good to your country
even unasked. They are a nation of heroes -never do they forget
any good done to them.
Myself: Well, Swamiji, in your lectures in the West you have
frequently and eloquently dwelt on our characteristic talents
and virtues, and many convincing proofs you have put forward to
show our whole-souled love of religion; but now you say that we
have become full of Tamas; and at the same time you are
accrediting us as the teachers of the eternal religion of the
Rishis to the world! How is that?
Swamiji: Do you mean to say that I should go about from country
to country, expatiating on your failings before the public?
Should I not rather hold up before them the characteristic
virtues that mark you as a nation? It is always good to tell a
man his defects in a direct way and in a friendly spirit to make
him convinced of them, so that he may correct himself -but you
should trumpet forth his virtues before others. Shri Ramakrishna
used to say that if you repeatedly tell a bad man that he is
good, he turns in time to be good; similarly, a good man becomes
bad if he is incessantly called so. There, in the West, I have
said enough to the people of their shortcomings. Mind, up to my
time, all who went over to the West from our country have sung
paeans to them in praise of their virtues and have trumpeted out
only our blemishes to their ears. Consequently, it is no wonder
that they have learnt to hate us. For this reason I have laid
before them your virtues, and pointed out to them their vices,
just as I am now telling you of your weaknesses and their good
points. However full of Tamas you may have become, something of
the nature of the ancient Rishis, however little it may be, is
undoubtedly in you still -at least the framework of it. But that
does not show that one should be in a hurry to take up at once
the role of a teacher of religion and go over to the West to
preach it. First of all, one must completely mould one's
religious life in solitude, must be perfect in renunciation and
must preserve Brahmacharya without a break. The Tamas has
entered into you -what of that? Cannot the Tamas be destroyed?
It can be done in less than no time! It was for the destruction
of this Tamas that Bhagavân Shri Ramakrishna came to us.
Myself: But who can aspire to be like you, Swamiji ?
Swamiji: Do you think that there will be no more Vivekanandas
after I die! That batch of young men who came and played music
before me a little while ago, whom you all despise for being
addicted to intoxicating drugs and look upon as worthless
fellows, if the Lord wishes, each and every one of them may
become a Vivekananda! There will be no lack of Vivekanandas, if
the world needs them -thousands and millions of Vivekanandas
will appear -from where, who knows! Know for certain that the
work done by me is not the work of Vivekananda, it is His work
-the Lord's own work! If one governor-general retires, another
is sure to be sent in his place by the Emperor. Enveloped in
Tamas however much you may be, know all that will clear away if
you take refuge in Him by being sincere to the core of your
heart. The time is opportune now, as the physician of the
world-disease has come. Taking His name, if you set yourself to
work, He will accomplish everything Himself through you. Tamas
itself will be transformed into the highest Sattva!
Myself: Whatever you may say, I cannot bring myself to believe
in these words. Who can come by that oratorical power of
expounding philosophy which you have?
Swamiji: You don't know! That power may come to all. That power
comes to him who observes unbroken Brahmacharya for a period of
twelve years, with the sole object of realising God I have
practiced that kind of Brahmacharya myself, and so a screen has
been removed, as it were, from my brain. For that reason, I need
not anymore think over or prepare myself for any lectures on
such a subtle subject as philosophy. Suppose I have to lecture
tomorrow; all that I shall speak about will pass tonight before
my eyes like so many pictures; and the next day I put into words
during my lecture all those things that I saw. So you will
understand now that it is not any power which is exclusively my
own. Whoever will practice unbroken Brahmacharya for twelve
years will surely have it. If you do so, you too will get it.
Our Shâstras do not say that only such and such a person will
get it and not others!
Myself: Do you remember, Swamiji, one day, before you took
Sannyâsa, we were sitting in the house of-, and you were trying
to explain the mystery of Samâdhi to us. And when I called in
question the truth of your words, saying that Samadhi was not
possible in this Kali Yuga, you emphatically demanded: "Do you
want to see Samadhi or to have it yourself? I get Samadhi
myself, and I can make you have it! " No sooner had you finished
saying so than a stranger came up and we did not pursue that
subject any further.
Swamiji: Yes, I remember the occasion.
Later, on my pressing him to make me get Samadhi, he said, "You
see, having continually lectured and worked hard for several
years, the quality of Rajas has become too predominant in me.
Hence that power is lying covered, as it were, in me now. If I
leave all work and go to the Himalayas and meditate in solitude
for some time, then that power will again come out in me."